Leica R reliability

[gorbas]

Question for Leica R users, from your experience, what R body is the most reliable now, after 40+ years? How even older Leicaflexes are holding?
Is it possible to use "newer" 3 cam lenses on older Leicaflexes?
Also looking for some Leica R dedicated website or forums recommendations.

 

[Mark J]

It would be most useful to find someone who has worked on them.
I suspect many users like myself have only used a couple or maybe three models over the years.
Conventional opinion is that the R6 and R6.2 are most reliable because they have mechanical shutter firing.
I have used an R4s, a R-E ( neither of which I used a lot ) and two R7's, which I did use a lot. One of my R7's is now unreliable after 25 years, the shutter will not fire unless the metering selector is moved back & forth a few times. I have not investifated what causes this, because it's hard to find anyone who will work on 'R' bodies now.
There are lots of nice R bodies for sale now, some at very attractive prices, many are very lightly-used.
However i don't know if all R's break down from hours of usage, or whether deterioration of electronics can make them unreliable after a long time on the shelf.
I will be interested to know myself.

ps my R4s body is over 35 years old and still works fine.

 

[miha]

Question for Leica R users, from your experience, what R body is the most reliable now, after 40+ years? How even older Leicaflexes are holding?
Is it possible to use "newer" 3 cam lenses on older Leicaflexes?
Also looking for some Leica R dedicated website or forums recommendations.

Not all R Leica cameras are over 40 years old now. I guess an R8 or R9 will be the best choice. Leicaflex cameras are made to the highest standard but most would require a service by now. Most 3-cam lenses work on them.
Have a look at http://www.summilux.net/

 

[xkaes]

Here's some info on most of the R models that might help out:

http://www.subclub.org/minman/leica.htm

 

[gorbas]

It would be most useful to find someone who has worked on them.
I suspect many users like myself have only used a couple or maybe three models over the years.
Conventional opinion is that the R6 and R6.2 are most reliable because they have mechanical shutter firing.
I have used an R4s, a R-E ( neither of which I used a lot ) and two R7's, which I did use a lot. One of my R7's is now unreliable after 25 years, the shutter will not fire unless the metering selector is moved back & forth a few times. I have not investifated what causes this, because it's hard to find anyone who will work on 'R' bodies now.
There are lots of nice R bodies for sale now, some at very attractive prices, many are very lightly-used.
However i don't know if all R's break down from hours of usage, or whether deterioration of electronics can make them unreliable after a long time on the shelf.
I will be interested to know myself.

ps my R4s body is over 35 years old and still works fine.

Thank you Mark! I'm very new to Leica R. Now I have R4 and I'm not impressed with it at all. In M mode, while looking thru viewfinder and turning shutter speed dial, I can only see mechanical exposures X, 1/100, B and 1 and 2s and they are not in sync with top dial. Almost like connection between shutter dial on the top and window in the viewfinder is partially lost. Also switching between Modes, right vertical shutter speeds or F stop display is kind of sticky. Before I had another R4 and that body was functioning much better.

 

[gorbas]

Not all R Leica cameras are over 40 years old now. I guess an R8 or R9 will be the best choice. Leicaflex cameras are made to the highest standard but most would require a service by now. Most 3-cam lenses work on them.
Have a look at http://www.summilux.net/

Hvala puno Miha! That website looks promising!

 

[gorbas]

Here's some info on most of the R models that might help out:

http://www.subclub.org/minman/leica.htm

Thank you xkaes! Excellent website!

 

[Hassasin]

Thank you Mark! I'm very new to Leica R. Now I have R4 and I'm not impressed with it at all. In M mode, while looking thru viewfinder and turning shutter speed dial, I can only see mechanical exposures X, 1/100, B and 1 and 2s and they are not in sync with top dial. Almost like connection between shutter dial on the top and window in the viewfinder is partially lost. Also switching between Modes, right vertical shutter speeds or F stop display is kind of sticky. Before I had another R4 and that body was functioning much better.

R4 is not a good starter need to go to R 5 , at least. R8/9 are only R series by letter otherwise far and away completely new design., and I don’t view them as good choice due to complexity, weight and size, but that is me.

To me biggest bummer in R series is shutter release lag, like they wanted user to second guess the desire to actually take a shot all the way down.

Otherwise, R5/7 lead it to me, but R6/6.2 are nearly same with exception of mechanical shutter.

 

[Paul Howell]

I've been looking at R8 and 9s for a while, prices for a good user camera is within reason, lens are expensive. Then looked a SL2, but again when adding up a kit, 50mm, 100 and 28, just outside my comfort zone. As the early Rs are basically Minolta who made some of the best glass and shared optic designs with Leica, again really like the specs of R8 or 9, maybe maybe maybe.

 

[GarageBoy]

R4 is not a good starter need to go to R 5 , at least. R8/9 are only R series by letter otherwise far and away completely new design., and I don’t view them as good choice due to complexity, weight and size, but that is me.

To me biggest bummer in R series is shutter release lag, like they wanted user to second guess the desire to actually take a shot all the way down.

Otherwise, R5/7 lead it to me, but R6/6.2 are nearly same with exception of mechanical shutter.

Do you notice the shutter lag in the R6 as well, or only the electronic models?

 

[Hassasin]

Do you notice the shutter lag in the R6 as well, or only the electronic models?

Yes it’s exactly the same. Outside of this humongous annoyance, I think R is one of the better handling cameras of all SLRs, but it may not be for those with lumberjack hands.

 

[miha]

Hvala puno Miha! That website looks promising!

Nema na čemu. Pozdrav.

 

[Hassasin]

I've been looking at R8 and 9s for a while, prices for a good user camera is within reason, lens are expensive. Then looked a SL2, but again when adding up a kit, 50mm, 100 and 28, just outside my comfort zone. As the early Rs are basically Minolta who made some of the best glass and shared optic designs with Leica, again really like the specs of R8 or 9, maybe maybe maybe.

XE vs. R3 feels pretty much the same. R4 was last MinLeica, and even that is not exactly true. XD7 vs R4 feels totally different in the hands, not only because body shape is actually different. From R5 it's all Leica, production moved back to Germany too.

As for R8/9 if you have not handled one, I urge you to do it. There are tons of reasons why these at some point where available used at half the cost of even an R7. Surely some fancy features built in, but it's a beast not for everyone to handle. And ROM lenses are a must in order to take advantage of those premium features and their cost is, to me, simply ridiculous. In the end you have an R8/9 that is anything but any R body before.

SL/SL2 have a finder that is out of this world. That alone is putting them in a different league. But I am not too fond of the sound of the shutter and even how it winds on. Maybe it's a sound of high precision, but in a way I get same feeling using Olympus OMs, with the exception of SL's overall built quality being way ahead of any OMs.

 

[guangong]

I have used Leicaflexes since early 1970s. Except for the Standard, all suffered from discolored prisms. Prism on SL2 was replaced by DAG and is in excellent condition. I have an R4(electronics died) and an R5. The relative reliability of the R cameras can be evaluated by their low prices on used market. Keep in mind that nowadays LEICA is marketed as a luxury brand. Are your jeans so inferior to the luxury $800 jeans? That is the current LEICA brands market. I remember the Hermes leather pealing off the Leica display model at one show. None of the current cameras are built that equal the standards of Leitz. It is only a "luxury brand".
I'll continue using my SL2, but wouldn't buy another R camera. If you don't already have a collection of R lenses, I would consider a more reliable camera system such as Nikon, Canon, etc. Others have suggested other alternatives.

 

[Arthurwg]

Go Nikon

 

[Hassasin]

Interesting take down of the rather reliable line of cameras (after early R4). Prices are not at all related to reliability, Rs are not Ms, never were. Their connection to Minolta does not help hold prices either, especially when even today people talk nonsense about that mix of technologies. Some partnerships die their own death, only because they were ill advised, ill marketed, and with too many expectations.

Handling wise I feel Rs where at top of the game, then and even today. Comparing to Canon F1 or Nikon F2, I don't see how anybody, or most, would not appreciate body's shape and overall ergonomics.

SL was meant to be what it could never be, but Rs I think had only one problem, brand name and pricing that could not put it in a completion with any major player in SLRs of their time. Can't sustain production competing with a product at multifold pricing premium with nothing to little more, outside of brand, to offer.

Still, thanks to all that marketing failure, many of us can use an R at rather affordable level (nix the top lenses that is).

 

[chuckroast]

Question for Leica R users, from your experience, what R body is the most reliable now, after 40+ years? How even older Leicaflexes are holding?
Is it possible to use "newer" 3 cam lenses on older Leicaflexes?
Also looking for some Leica R dedicated website or forums recommendations.

If you have a specific desire to own a Leica reflex go for it. Be prepared to pay handsome sums to keep them running. Ye over at YYE Camera has estimates of what CLAs cost so you can get an idea. He and DAG are THE Leica guys ... oh, and expect to wait months for your camera back.

OTOH, if you want a reliable film SLR to actually use, look no further than Nikon. At last count, I have 7 Nikon film bodies (don't ask, I am gonna sell some of them OK, OK????). My oldest is a Nikkormat Ft from the 1950s, the newest is a late model F3. ALL of them work and work well. If you can find a clean F2 with a meter or an F with a plain prism. Both of these are just rock solid cameras. I love the F3 as well, but good ones command a lot of money.

For the record, I also own a Barnack Leica (a IIIf) that Ye just CLAed for me and I just love that camera because it is the quintessential Leica - elegant, simple, flawlessly engineered. I'd consider a M body if I could find the right one in the right condition at the right price. But the one Leica I would not touch is their reflex bodies, but that's just me. You do you ...

 

[Hassasin]

Ha, Nikon the only reliable camera brand, nice try.

I think one needs to own and use a particular brand, Leica R or otherwise, before making assumptions about its reliability.

 

[blee1996]

I had also sampled a lot of SLRs by both German and Japanese manufacturers from that era, and I do recommend at least try the Leica R5 and beyond bodies (and even Leicaflex SL/SL2).

The Leica R5 is my favorite: just enough automation, still compact and solid, affordable, and dependable (so far). I have Minolta SLRs from that era, and I can definitely tell you that the Leica R5 is of a different class in terms of quality and finish. I pair my R5 with Elmarit-R 60/2.8 macro lens, and pretend that I were SEBASTIAO SALGADO making masterpieces.

I also have the Leicaflex SL, which is yet again in a class of its own. And I agree everything said about its big beautiful viewfinder. But in the end, it is just a tad bulky, heavy, and lack of Aperture Priority mode that I leave it at home most of the time. I do fire it up with Elmarit-R 135/2.8 lens once it a while.

The 135/2.8 is one of the most affordable Leica R lenses, and renders beautifully wide open for portraits. The 60/2.8 is still reasonable, and versatile for my carry-everywhere needs.

 

[miha]

Ha, Nikon the only reliable camera brand, nice try.

I think one needs to own and use a particular brand, Leica R or otherwise, before making assumptions about its reliability.

Very true. Out of 6 film Nikon bodies, 3 failed, and out of 4 Leica R/Leicafelx cameras, only the R3 Mot gives me trouble.

 

[chuckroast]

Very true. Out of 6 film Nikon bodies, 3 failed, and out of 4 Leica R/Leicafelx cameras, only the R3 Mot gives me trouble.

I'm curious with bodies gave you trouble. I have had nearly flawless experience with the Nikon mechanical film bodies - Nikkormat, Nikomat, F, F2, F3. The prosumer stuff they made and the later F bodies are junk IMHO - too much useless automation and lots of plastic.

 

[miha]

I'm curious with bodies gave you trouble. I have had nearly flawless experience with the Nikon mechanical film bodies - Nikkormat, Nikomat, F, F2, F3. The prosumer stuff they made and the later F bodies are junk IMHO - too much useless automation and lots of plastic.

Sure: FG, FA, and F90 - this one was purchased brand new.

 

[gorbas]

Thank you all for recommendations!
Ha, ha, no worry, I have enough good film cameras for a next few lives. Shooting Nikon for the last 41 years.
Leica R body inquiry is just possible side project, to have "reliable" body for few R lenses I got recently. There is always easy swap of Leica R bayonet to Nikon F with losing automatic aperture and open metering.

 

[chuckroast]

Sure: FG, FA, and F90 - this one was purchased brand new.

Yeah, those are all prosumer bodies and not likely to take the beating of an all mechanical pro Nikon. Go find yourself a vintage F2 that's in good shape and have it CLAed. It should last you years. The only thing that tends to break on those old film bodies are their meters, but I hand meter, so I don't care.

 

[Mark J]

The R8 and 9 are significantly heavier & bulkier than the previous models, although not bad compared to modern cameras like Canon 5D's and Nikon D850. It depends what you want and how much walking/climbing you might do. They are impressive though.
My fave was the R7 for its moderate size and the half-stops on the shutter dial, which speeded up manual operation, when spot metering, a surprising amount.