Leica photographers - the naked truth

[zanxion72]

It is remarkable how many non-Leica users rant on what they do not have and they might never have. Those that rant on their Leicas compared to other cheaper stuff they own, why don't they just sell their Leicas and buy a bunch of those cheaper ones. With the money from a sale of a Leica could one get hundreds of those Mickey Mouse cameras for example and really prove their stands.

 

[Arthurwg]

"It's not the ships, it's the men in them." A wise man said that.

 

[snusmumriken]

You are correct, as after Oskar Barnack died the marketing men moved in to propagate the design with money signs in their eyes. The original concept was lost after about the 1950's to special editions, snakeskin coverings, gold versions, you name it. But let’s not forget the original concept that Oskar Barnack created. The early Leica’s were probably the finest cameras ever created in the history of chemical photography.

I think that's unfair, you know. All camera manufacturers are in it for the money. For a long time Leica clung conservatively to their Barnack roots at a time when other brands were racing to bring in more and more features. With the M6, for instance, they did some brilliant sideways thinking to fit an effective light meter into the familiar body shape, but also made a wise choice to show only 'more or less' exposure indicators in the viewfinder, so that you could concentrate on the picture and not bother your left hemisphere with distracting numbers. Cynics will say that the latter claim was hype making a virtue out of a failing, but honestly it suits me. Admittedly, Leica didn't include any way to switch the meter off completely during use ... but a very talented machinist, whose name I have shamefully forgotten, made me a battery cover switch for mine. Naturally I feel appropriate guilt towards M6 owners who don't have this gadget. For my part, I have learned to cope without snakeskin, and on that score I want no pity from the likes of Elton John, Queen Elizabeth II, Sting or anyone else.
Oh god, I'm getting drawn into this...

 

[faberryman]

With the money from a sale of a Leica could one get hundreds of those Mickey Mouse cameras for example and really prove their stands.

You don't need hundreds of Mickey Mouse cameras. You just need one. And there is nothing to prove. Besides, scanning film really levels the playing field.

 

[removedacct1]

Are we still doing this?? Seriously???

 

[zanxion72]

You don't need hundreds of Mickey Mouse cameras. You just need one. And there is nothing to prove. Besides, scanning film really levels the playing field.

First, not everyone just scans like you. Second, scanning levels just about nothing in this field. Even with scanning you can really speak of quality of both your equipment and your film development and scanning skills (assuming that you are not using a Mickey scanner too).
Also, if you are happy with a Mickey Mouse camera, this is good just for you. If one is content with what he/she has, then why wining about others using something different?
Art, can surely be made even with lenses made from paper tubes, but when reliability and consistency comes into play you 'd rather have something else with you than just Mickey.

 

[Arthurwg]

I've owned an M3 (1973), followed by an M4 and an M6 now. I also have two Barnack cameras but that's another story. Still, I would like to have an M7.

 

[snusmumriken]

Are we still doing this?? Seriously???

I quit.

 

[Huss]

Are we still doing this?? Seriously???

No.

We've moved on. Now discussing the longevity of denim.

Speaking of... I was watching a Rick Steve's episode where he visited Provence. Did not know that denim was invented in Nimes. Hence the name. From Nimes.

 

[Huss]

Meh, even a N65, N2020, minolta x-9, fm10, F601... will be easier to use and willl yield equal results most of the time.

It’s just that, once over 40 years old, One doesn’t want to fiddle with cheaporino stuff anymore (as a general rule).

Using a X700 was fun, it was cool to have access to such good quality for dirt cheap money, but there comes a time when a Honda motorcycle will not cut it anymore versus a Harley. Sure, Honda yadda yadda yadda but STFU once and for all, Y’all: a Harley is a Harley. a Leica is a Leica.

Not rf cameras.

 

[Huss]

There was a question about the Fed 3 and Nikon S2/3?

Fed 3 was my favorite Soviet rf. I just found it felt and worked better than all the others. A really excellent RF choice for little money.

I prefer the Nikon S2 over the S3 because it has a clearer VF (like an M3 - just 50mm shows) and a better RF patch.
Problem w the S2 is that it has an awkward shutter speed dial.
Problem with the S3 is that it has that stooopid focus wheel, and aperture ring that rotates while you focus. (same for all Nikon rfs). You can manually focus with the lens, but should only do this slowly as it wears on the gears.

Someone mentioned a Konica RF? First off - how dare you Sir! (I actually love the design. Would get one if they didn't have that E error albatross). Loading an complete autoload camera is the easiest solution.
But of the manual load RFs, the Leica quickload is the quickest.

 

[Pieter12]

No.

We've moved on. Now discussing the longevity of denim.

Speaking of... I was watching a Rick Steve's episode where he visited Provence. Did not know that denim was invented in Nimes. Hence the name. From Nimes.

And blue jeans comes from the French "bleu de genes" or Genoese blue, a cloth used for Genoese sailor's clothing.

 

[Huss]

And blue jeans comes from the French "bleu de genes" or Genoese blue, a cloth used for Genoese sailor's clothing.

Hmm, now I'm wondering where dungarees came from.

D'ungari - from the Ungari I assume is way off.

 

[removed account4]

It is remarkable how many non-Leica users rant on what they do not have and they might never have. Those that rant on their Leicas compared to other cheaper stuff they own, why don't they just sell their Leicas and buy a bunch of those cheaper ones. With the money from a sale of a Leica could one get hundreds of those Mickey Mouse cameras for example and really prove their stands.

I own a Leica and use it from time to time, I never said I didn't have one or never use one, its a camera and im not a camera snob, I couldn't care less what people use or what I use, its just a camera. someone complained about their camera not having 3rd stops in f-stops and flash increments ? my comment was to suggest that for since IDK the 1890s people had 2 speed instantaneous and T, and 1 fstop and they were able to take perfectly good photographs, and when I was 5 I had 2 cameras that were simple boxes and they took good enough photographs. I'd say people like to complain about their gear instead of making photographs, but what do I know..

Hmm, now I'm wondering where dungarees came from.

D'ungari - from the Ungari I assume is way off.

Dungarees come from a region of India, Dungaree where they made dungaree trousers (work clothes / outside clothes as opposed to pants which are formal / slacks ( or undergarments depending on what part of the world you live ) )

 

[Pieter12]

Hmm, now I'm wondering where dungarees came from.

D'ungari - from the Ungari I assume is way off.

I believe it comes from a Hindi word, the name of a village where cheap work clothes were made.

 

[mshchem]

No.

We've moved on. Now discussing the longevity of denim.

Speaking of... I was watching a Rick Steve's episode where he visited Provence. Did not know that denim was invented in Nimes. Hence the name. From Nimes.

I thought Levi Strauss used denim in the ancestor of tractor pulls, "mule pulls" thus the tag

 

[RDW]

You are correct, as after Oskar Barnack died the marketing men moved in to propagate the design with money signs in their eyes. The original concept was lost after about the 1950's to special editions, snakeskin coverings, gold versions, you name it. But let’s not forget the original concept that Oskar Barnack created. The early Leica’s were probably the finest cameras ever created in the history of chemical photography.

They've been making gold plated cameras covered in reptile skin since 1929, but I doubt the 'Leica as fashion brand' ever amounted to much until this century. Leica failed to keep up with autofocus cameras in the 90s and with digital in the early 21st century, and was in trouble by the time Andreas Kaufmann took over in the mid 00s. Leica was then reinvented as a less accessible luxury brand, complete with its own boutiques. The price of a bread and butter lens like the 35/2 rose by something like 80% in 5 years. The cost of the M film cameras went up and up. Once comparable to the price of a top of the range Nikon, by the time the F6 was retired last year, when it was selling for under £1500, the film Ms had reached a stratospheric £4100 (with or without a meter).

The prices of secondhand gear have been dragged up too, and recently boosted again by renewed interest in film photography in general and by certain social media influencers who have deified cameras like the M6. For years you could pick up a decent one for about £800. Now there are people asking triple that. And of course these cameras need lenses. How much is a nice Summicron 50 today? Probably about the price of a couple of FM series Nikon bodies and half a dozen high quality primes. The barrier to owning a Leica system is considerably higher than owning a nice SLR system, and the gap is much wider than it used to be. That FM body will set you back about 1/25 of the price of the M6, for a camera with similar durability, shutter speed range and metering. But of course it isn't a rangefinder...

 

[George Mann]

Fed 3 was my favorite Soviet rf. I just found it felt and worked better than all the others. A really excellent RF choice for little money.

Exactly. The only thing that bothers me is the small, tight viewfinder that seems to show an equivalent of a 60/65mm lens.

 

[Pioneer]

I just bought an Argus C3.

If it works out I may sell my Leica MA.

 

[fdonadio]

If one is content with what he/she has, then why wining about others using something different?

This thread was never about complaining about other people’s choice of gear, although some people (kind of) steered it that way.

By the way, what this thread is *really* about happens not only with Leica owners/users. For instance, *some* Hasselblad owners/users also think they are better photographers — or even better persons, whatever that means — because they use a Hasselblad.

That’s the point of the thread and clearly illustrated in the video on the original post.

Pretty much everyone (except a very small group) agrees Leicas are wonderful, precise, light, easy to use cameras (I’m sure I forgot some attributes here).

 

[Pieter12]

think they are better photographers — or even better persons

The idea is that the possession of either one is a symbol of discriminating taste and better social standing, more disposable income, and snob appeal. They belong to a special "club." It has become a status and hipness symbol, even when not adorned in exotic animal skin or a special edition signature.

 

[Huss]

T.. For instance, *some* Hasselblad owners/users also think they are better photographers — or even better persons, whatever that means — because they use a Hasselblad.

..

I definitely became a better person once I acquired my Hasselblads. But that may be because they were made by Fuji.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

There was a question about the Fed 3 and Nikon S2/3?

Fed 3 was my favorite Soviet rf. I just found it felt and worked better than all the others. A really excellent RF choice for little money.

I prefer the Nikon S2 over the S3 because it has a clearer VF (like an M3 - just 50mm shows) and a better RF patch.
Problem w the S2 is that it has an awkward shutter speed dial.
Problem with the S3 is that it has that stooopid focus wheel, and aperture ring that rotates while you focus. (same for all Nikon rfs). You can manually focus with the lens, but should only do this slowly as it wears on the gears.

Someone mentioned a Konica RF? First off - how dare you Sir! (I actually love the design. Would get one if they didn't have that E error albatross). Loading an complete autoload camera is the easiest solution.
But of the manual load RFs, the Leica quickload is the quickest.

I have a Zorki 5 that I redid many years ago now. Replaced the shutter curtains and since the slowest speed was 1/25 I underwound the shutter springs so it would be 1/12 which is more useful. It is wonderfully quiet because of that. Nice camera now but I never use it. Lol. I also had a Fed 2 at one point. That was a nice camera. Simple. A Zorki 4 was a bit awkward and crude in comparison. I always wanted to pick up a Zorki 3m. That would be a fun camera I think.

The Hexar is worth having but, yeah, lottery. Lol. Mine has worked fine since I bought it maybe 13 years ago. I've worn the paint off it in some areas. I've used it alot. Can't beat titanium covers. Always wondered if Leica ever made a Titanium covered camera or if they were just titanium colored? For what they cost these days they should be titanium. If I could tell Leica to make a camera it would be like the Hexar but a Leica of course, If they did that then it would probably cost like 20 grand. lol.

 

[Huss]

I have a Zorki 5 that I redid many years ago now. Replaced the shutter curtains and since the slowest speed was 1/25 I underwound the shutter springs so it would be 1/12 which is more useful. It is wonderfully quiet because of that. Nice camera now but I never use it. Lol. I also had a Fed 2 at one point. That was a nice camera. Simple. A Zorki 4 was a bit awkward and crude in comparison. I always wanted to pick up a Zorki 3m. That would be a fun camera I think.

The Hexar is worth having but, yeah, lottery. Lol. Mine has worked fine since I bought it maybe 13 years ago. I've worn the paint off it in some areas. I've used it alot. Can't beat titanium covers. Always wondered if Leica ever made a Titanium covered camera or if they were just titanium colored? For what they cost these days they should be titanium. If I could tell Leica to make a camera it would be like the Hexar but a Leica of course, If they did that then it would probably cost like 20 grand. lol.

If Leica ever made an M7.2 (M7N? M8 etc is already taken), the only change I'd want is for them to REMOVE the dx reader, and have a 1/4000 sec shutter. Like the Hexar. The M7 is already an electronic camera, and Leica already has shutters like that in their digi cams.

 

[drenatyn]

Wow, what a cool and informative thread.