Leica or Zeiss

[Dr.Pain-MD]

I had some good laughs at the fanaticism displayed in this thread.

Yeah, I had a good laugh about the Kodak film comment earlier.

 

[jordanstarr]

Why not consider a different Leica that is far cheaper and nearly as good? I can't think of a reason why the MP would justify the huge cost difference of an M6 or M7. You can probably use both for the rest of your life and not worry about resale value. But I guess if you have the money, go for it.

 

[André E.C.]

Leica or Zeiss?
Hmmmmmmm, i'll take Nikon then...

http://www.cameraquest.com/nrfblsp2005.htm



Cheers

 

[bblhed]

Leica or Zeiss?
Hmmmmmmm, i'll take Nikon then...

http://www.cameraquest.com/nrfblsp2005.htm



Cheers

I my Nikon SLR's, rule here, but when I want to go out and do something different in 35mm I will grab my Zeiss Ikon. It's a nice change to shoot a rangefinder now and then.

Come to think of it the Zeiss hasn't been out lately, maybe I will take it to the beach tomorrow.

 

[segedi]

As you'll notice with most of these advice request threads, when someone offers a or b, advice for c,d,e,f,g,h,i.... pours in. You will get heaps of info about what other people like and some more advice about how a/b or both are not the right investment. Some love Zeiss, some love Leica, a few love neither and all are right! While it's true that cameras take pictures and any camera won't take a better photograph than the photographers capability, I believe in the enjoyment of cameras and using them to take photographs.

Part of that enjoyment is how a camera feels/sounds. Or how a lens feels. This tactile connection is important. And you can't know which camera to buy without holding it and allowing yourself to get a sense of how you will enjoy using it. I have a Bessa R4A and it's great for what I bought it for, a wideangle viewfinder that also has AE and takes photos! But my MP is an entirely different experience. As noted above, they both take photos and the photos are better or worse between them, but the experience surely is.

My best advice is to take everything you read here, consider it, and then dismiss it. Get the cameras in your hands and see what works for you. I don't know where you live if this is possible, but the camera shop in my city has both Ikons and Leicas and you can see what they feel like. If not, perhaps some friendly APUGers in your town have some to try out.

 

[Rol_Lei Nut]

Leica or Zeiss?
Hmmmmmmm, i'll take Nikon then...

http://www.cameraquest.com/nrfblsp2005.htm


Cheers

Nikons are nice, but sadly mine have been collecting dust for years...

Leica M (ZIs, just to stay on topic, can do just as well, it's more a matter of individual preferences and fine-tuning), Leica Rs, Rolleiflexes and the "Dark Side" are my tools now.

I keep my Nikons mainly because I can't bear to sell them....

P.S. Only followed the link after posting - nice! But likely to have the same ergonomic shortcomings of the "real" Contaxes...

 

[herb]

Once you get to a certain level of quality, reliability and optics, the photographer's skill is the important factor.
I have a number of Leica lenses, like the look of them, but the M6 I had drove me nuts trying to load it.
I got the Zeiss and Bessa R3a, like both. I don't care for screw mount lenses, but that said, they are all good cameras.
Get some experience with any of the above cameras and see what kind of photos you can make.
You should by now have a good feel for those who love to stroke their gear, which has nothing to do with the quality of the work they produce.

 

[Ian David]

... those who love to stroke their gear, which has nothing to do with the quality of the work they produce.

Exactly. Beautiful equipment and lovely work are neither mutually dependent nor mutually exclusive. It is of course possible, and not uncommon, both to love beautiful cameras and to produce excellent work with them.

Ian

 

[Diapositivo]

Zeiss Ikon ZM has a broader range-finder base than any other rangefinder as far as I know, and it will allow greater focusing precision with tele lenses. So if you use 90mm and 135mm often, and value sharpness, I think a Zeiss Ikon ZM is to be seriously considered. It is also possible that, in the second-hand market, you get considerable bang for the buck. Leica M-series can be very different one from the other, so I suggest you find some table summarising viewfinder magnification, viewfinder frames and rangefinder base for each model.

They both use the Leica M lens mount, so you can mount Leica, Zeiss, and leica-thread-mount lenses of any make with both of them.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

My father’s advice was to buy the best you can and keep it as long as you can. It seems to work well with most things except electronics.

It holds with electronics. MCintosh, classic Crown, Audio Research. Tektronix, Hewlett Packard (now Agilent), General Radio, Leeds and Northrop, Haliburton. And, hopefully, in 50 years or so, Darkroom Automation.

 

[Paul Jenkin]

"Quality pays, it doesn't cost". Not sure who said it originally but my dad instilled this in me as a kid. Also, you only lose money on something if you sell it. Otherwise, it's an asset.

The best I could buy when I was looking for a rangefinder was a secondhand (but mint) M6 TTL and Summicron-M 50mm. I'm sure there's pros and cons to be debated between the III series and M cameras as well as whether to go with ZM bodies and lenses or Voigtlander. However, I always suggest that people go and have a play with the kit first as I believe that you'll produce better work with tools with which you're comfortable and confident. If everything feels alien / in the wrong place, you'll soon get bored and want to swap - and that's when it starts getting really expensive.

 

[jp80874]

It holds with electronics. MCintosh, classic Crown, Audio Research. Tektronix, Hewlett Packard (now Agilent), General Radio, Leeds and Northrop, Haliburton. And, hopefully, in 50 years or so, Darkroom Automation.

You are right Nick. It holds with some electronics. I also have a MCintosh, but for most electronics the changes are too rapid. For most last year's electronics are a waste of foot print space.

John Powers

 

[Paul Goutiere]

It holds with electronics. MCintosh, classic Crown, Audio Research. Tektronix, Hewlett Packard (now Agilent), General Radio, Leeds and Northrop, Haliburton. And, hopefully, in 50 years or so, Darkroom Automation.

I have a Tektronix 310B oscilloscope from about 1962. Maybe the same age as my Leica M2.

Both function flawlessly.

 

[arealitystudios]

If we are talking a choice between the Zeiss Ikon and a Leica MP I would go with the Zeiss Ikon.

The Zeiss Ikon is a great camera - durable, functional, and feels nice in your hands. It's everything a modern rangefinder should be. The MP is obviously great too, but taking the emotional content out of it and the need to have "the best" I can't honestly say an MP is thousands of dollars above and beyond the Zeiss Ikon. I can't even say it is hundreds of dollars above and beyond the Zeiss Ikon. Even if the two cameras where the exact same price I would still give the Zeiss Ikon consideration.

With the money you save on camera bodies you can buy a heck of a lot in terms of lenses, film, darkroom supplies, or even a really great exotic vacation where you can use your new rangefinder and take some stunning photos.

But then again, I'm the guy who pulls out his Bessa R3A with a CV 15mm as his most used rangefinder system.

That's my 2 cents, and what is right for me is certainly not right for everyone.

 

[H.veng.smith]

Im in Ny so will be at b and h tomorrow hopefully seeing these two and feeling which one feels right.
The other thing is everywhere I look online they are sold, anyone know where people have these in stock?

 

[ooze]

if you use non Kodak film , you will ruin the results , I am strongly believe this.

Umut

That's why Ara Güler, who's been using Ilford HP5, has produced only poor pictures..

 

[herb]

Zeiss vs Leica

Try popflash in California-they have a lot of stuff from Zeiss.

 

[budrichard]

Im in Ny so will be at b and h tomorrow hopefully seeing these two and feeling which one feels right.
The other thing is everywhere I look online they are sold, anyone know where people have these in stock?

As I originally tried to relate, its not the camera but the lens that matters.
A good photographer can take good pictures with just about anything.
When you get into subjective concerns such as camera feel and other esthetics, you have left photography and entered the realm of the enthusiast and collector.
These are two different worlds and until you gain some experience in actually producing good photographs, the subtle differences in cameras won't mean much to your final product.
Decide on a focal length, aperture and price you can afford, pick a lens and then pick the body to go with it. Don't agonize over lens graphs and particulars as they mean little in the real world. Modern lenses are well designed and take very good pictures.
But have a good time at it anyway.-Dick

 

[useless generation]

I had a hard time deciding why NOT to get a Zeiss Ikon they really are a great deal for the price and have that huge viewfinder and AE mode which is great but i still ended up settling for the M6TTL. The way i saw it was i was always going to lust for the Leica so why not just buy it. Ive learnt if you really want something you may as well just get it because eventually you will anyway haha, providing you have the $$$ of course!

 

[2F/2F]

Go to Art Galleries and see the Leica shots from original prints. You will be attracted.
Noone reached the optical engineering mathematics and glass research knowledge as Leica.
In my belief , older the Leica better the Leica. Dont waste your money to modern Leicas , buy a series III and a Summar , Summitar , Elmar , Summaron , Hektor , Telyt and you will reach the top of RF mountain.
You will invest 1/10 price and get 10x quality.
If you dont believe me , look at how people dressed like at 30s and 70s. After WW2 , all quality dropped.
Old Leicas are made by elegant people for elegant people.
Its sad , now old Leitz sold at corners like a Potato.
You cant see the details and quality of Leica at a LCD screen also.
Before investing thousand , invest 100 dollars and buy photography books and magazines .
If you are not a human photographer , you wont use its capacity , if you use non Kodak film , you will ruin the results , I am strongly believe this.

Umut

Good to know.

 

[turle]

The OP simply wants to be informed about the possible choices in an insightful way and correctly. To elevate simple things to "religious" levels would not help him in anyway.

Regarding Summitar; I have three samples, one is with straight aperture blades (older version but coated) the others are with spherical hexagonal aperture blades. Compared to the two DR-, one version 4 and one version V (w. focusing tab) Summicrons 50/2.0, the Summitars are slightly inferior at the center, grossly inferior around edges at all apertures starting from f2.0. Contrast: Summitars are lower at any aperture.

HP5: Since 1963 I have been using Ilford hi-speed films starting with the HP3, then the HP4 and finally the HP5 series besides Tri-X too. They are wonderful films.. even HCB was using the same since the introduction of the HP3 until he retired.

Regarding the ZI and MP he was considering: I am sure he would love the finder of the ZI, so bright and easy to use with eyeglasses too. However the MP shines from the quality point of view as well as mechanically. IMHO, no need to buy a new MP since slightly used ones sometimes surface with half of the price of the new.

Finely used and CLA'd M2s, M3s and M4s also could be recommendable choices for anyone who can afford as they last long years between service intervals. A Digisix or Sekonic can complement these classical models with low cost, making them attractive even for beginners.

Regards,

Bob