Leica M7 Advice

Paul Smith · Jul 15, 2016

Help Please...

Considering buying a Leica M7 at the moment, I already own an M6. I have heard that the M7 can be problematic, so interested in feedback and advice. Asking price is $1500 US, which seems like a good deal. Tempted even if its just for an investment, what do you reckon?????

John Koehrer · Jul 18, 2016

Used camera investments are pretty common. They usually end up with a lesser value.

A sealed, new in box camera maybe. IF. It has an unusual/low serial number. In several countries
particular numbers or combinations can be either good or bad luck.

Unless you can get it (dirt)cheap it's a guaranteed loss.

Ko.Fe. · Jul 18, 2016

It is slightly bellow it is going price. Most likely for reason.
It is using weird batteries, By the time it might become as an investment these batteries migh become obsolete and this particular camera is obsolete without batteries.
All film cameras are becoming obsolete even if film is available, because people who are interesting in using of film are becoming obsolete.
If you want buy something and want it keeping value, get Leica made and fast lens. New and use wearing gloves and indoors only.

AgX · Jul 18, 2016

John Koehrer said:
Used camera investments are pretty common. They usually end up with a lesser value.

Yes, when that investment should be harvested those collectors of today likely will be gone.
Will there be a new collectors generation?

Hopefully there still will be a users generation.

Huss · Jul 18, 2016

Paul Smith said:
Help Please...

Considering buying a Leica M7 at the moment, I already own an M6. I have heard that the M7 can be problematic, so interested in feedback and advice. Asking price is $1500 US, which seems like a good deal. Tempted even if its just for an investment, what do you reckon?????

Try to find one with a serial # 2,88x,xxx or higher. Those are the ones with the improved MP finder (less flare) and improved optical DX reader. $1500 is a good deal if the camera has these attributes and is in proper working order (rangefinder doesn't need alignment etc) and in good condition. It's what I paid for mine with those 'specs'.
It's a lovely camera and I have zero regrets.

gone · Jul 18, 2016

Well, it's an electronic camera, so sudden failure is always a possibility, even w/ a Leica. You can only imagine what it would cost to fix it if it broke. I always wanted one too, but bought a Bessa R2A instead, and other than the shutter being a little louder thought it was a better shooter than an M7. No, the build quality wasn't the same, but it took the same lenses, and they didn't care what body they were on.

I tried one of the Hexar RF's, and it was a high quality camera w/ better specs than an M7, but just couldn't warm up to it. It's hard to explain, but it just felt "dead" in my hands. Not enough tactile feedback, so I sold it.

summicron1 · Jul 18, 2016

my one impression with an M7 is that the electronic shutter is so quiet you think there's something wrong with it.

If it is in good order, and the batteries are still available (not sure what it takes -- ms 76? Still very common) I'd say go for it, although i can't see it is THAT much of an order better than ur m6.

Ditto what the folks say about an "investment." Cameras are meant to be used, and any use destroys investor value, but what is a camera for, anyway, if not to use? -- your investment money is better placed in a good mutual fund that tracks the Dow.

Best Example: Once a guy sold me a Leica IIIF, RD, ST, that was pretty much mint. I mean, gorgous. However having sat unused for 40 years, it just needed a little tweaking in service. Oh yeah, and the lens was a bit hazy. But I got it for $200!

No problem, get it serviced, it's mint, it will be a great investment. Unfortunately, the first two times it was serviced it didn't last real long, needed it again, and by the time I got that done it was (a) a bit scratched, mostly from handling, and (b) working well but at a cost of more than I could ever hope, in a sane world, to recover from my "investment."

Keep in mind, the IIIF, RD, ST, at one time was trading for more than $700, and this was in 20-years-ago dollars. they are currently half that.

So I said to hell with it, slapped a Canadian Rapidwinder on it, and now use it. The "leather" is chipping, its collecting scratches and wear, and it works like a champ. Lovely images, great camera, and it is a happier camera for being used.

Huss · Jul 19, 2016

momus said:
Well, it's an electronic camera, so sudden failure is always a possibility, even w/ a Leica. You can only imagine what it would cost to fix it if it broke. I always wanted one too, but bought a Bessa R2A instead, and other than the shutter being a little louder thought it was a better shooter than an M7. No, the build quality wasn't the same, but it took the same lenses, and they didn't care what body they were on.

I had an R3A at the same time I had (still have ) the M7. The only thing that I thought was great on the Bessa was the price. $400 for a mint one was great. But everything else about the Leica was so much better (build, handling, meter pattern, shutter speed lock, quietness etc) so I sold the Bessa. On top of that the electronic Bessas (R2a, R3a etc) are dead without batteries and/or if u have an electrical issue, while the M7 has mechanical speeds at 1/125 and 1/60.

cliveh · Jul 19, 2016

If you already have a M6, why do you need an M7?

4season · Jul 19, 2016

Buy it to use and enjoy!

Even if you owned an extremely rare item like a Leica Luxus, there's no promise that it would fetch more at auction in the future: Sometimes your market literally dies off.

Chan Tran · Jul 19, 2016

I don't think I would want an M7. I certainly would like something like a very good condition M4-P. Something that has no batteries. Batteries don't make a better Leica.

Huss · Jul 19, 2016

Chan Tran said:
I don't think I would want an M7. I certainly would like something like a very good condition M4-P. Something that has no batteries. Batteries don't make a better Leica.

If you want one with AE it does. If you don't want AE, or a built in meter, then it doesn't. Nice to have the choice.

Chan Tran · Jul 19, 2016

Huss said:
If you want one with AE it does. If you don't want AE, or a built in meter, then it doesn't. Nice to have the choice.

That is what I meant. If I get a Leica I would pick one without neither AE nor meter. Like I said batteries which provide AE and metering don't make better Leica.

Ronald Moravec · Jul 20, 2016

A fool and his money are soon parted.

jbmia · Jul 21, 2016

I've had my M7 for a few years now and highly recommend it if it has the Optical DX reader and the finder upgrade. I've had an M2, M3, M4, and M6 and for me the keeper has been my M7. Don't get me wrong I'd pick up another mechanical M in a heart beat, but for various reasons beyond the scope of this post I parted with each of them in the past. I've had NO viewfinder flare at all with my M7 and I'd had this issue with some of the others and it drove me crazy. The M7 is a rock solid camera that is STILL IN PRODUCTION.

TheM6, M6 TTL, M7 or the later MP bodies all take the same batteries:

M7 takes (2)...
CR1/3N also known as/similar to:
DL1/3N, K58L and 2L76 (11.6 x 10.8mm)

M7 takes (4)...
PX76/SR44 also known as/similar to:
A76, S76, D357, 10L14, EPX76, KS76,SR44, 357, and V76PX (11.6 x 5.4mm)

(Detail lifted from lavidaleica.com)

The CR1/3N isn't always readily available at your pharmacy or camera shop etc but the SR44 and its variants usually is.. You can always buy a lifetime supply onAmazon and put in the freezer if it makes you feel secure. A set of batteries lasts a long time.. Like a year unless your shooting daily..

I've thought of trading my M7 to upgrade to an M240 from time to time, but I come back to these things that I value from time to time: no viewfinder flare, nearly silent shutter, ACCURATE shutter, reliable, a real flash hot shoe, I can use a 28mm or 35mm lens if I want, aperture priority for those quick captures when you don't have time to think, TTL flash metering (I have the SF24D), brass top (not zinc, which was a cost cutting measure...), quick loading of film with no need to attach to a reel... Think about each of those other M's and each has one of those issues you need to live with.

I paid $1500 a couple years back from my local Leica dealer... Prices at that same dealer are $2195 now... Leica prices are stable or go up, not down when you buy used (accept maybe digital M)...

Oh yeah, and for the M4-P guy, why would you want an M4-P, which is basically an M6 without a meter. For similar price you can have an M4-P with a meter (an M6) or the better built classic M4 (missing the 28mm frame lines )...

Last word.. There's nothing practical about these cameras guys. You buy one cause life is short and you want one... Not cause it makes financial sense or it will help you take better pictures..

Oh yeah, my serial is 2,778xxx .. who knows though, could have been upgraded.. I wouldn't necessarily draw a hard line on those serial ranges as long as you can validate in person.

All the best guys..

Huss · Jul 21, 2016

Ronald Moravec said:
A fool and his money are soon parted.

That's why the OP is buying used. He will get to use a fantastic camera and if he ever no longer wants it, be able to sell it for about what he paid for it. Maybe make a $$ or two.
Getting to use a Leica for free essentially. Very smart move.

jbmia · Jul 21, 2016

Huss said:
That's why the OP is buying used. He will get to use a fantastic camera and if he ever no longer wants it, be able to sell it for about what he paid for it. Maybe make a $$ or two.
Getting to use a Leica for free essentially. Very smart move.

Agreed !!

But on the other hand, the "Leica Man doesn't care, or even know, the trifling price of his cameras. This is not relevant. Just like a Porsche, no one buys a Leica because he needs it. He acquires the Leica because he is who he is..." http://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/leica-man.htm

Tongue in cheek of course... ;-)

Ko.Fe. · Jul 21, 2016

jbmia said:
Agreed !!

But on the other hand, the "Leica Man doesn't care, or even know, the trifling price of his cameras. This is not relevant. Just like a Porsche, no one buys a Leica because he needs it. He acquires the Leica because he is who he is..." http://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/leica-man.htm

Tongue in cheek of course... ;-)

Where are some ... people like you who are comparing Leicas to Porshe. And where are some people like me who have tried something else, before switching to Leica and comparing it as Makita to Black&Decker.

4season · Jul 21, 2016

To date I have owned: M3, M4, M4-2, M6, M8 and M9 and really do think certain "problems" get blown totally out of proportion.

Flare-prone M6 finder: IMO, if no one told you, you'd never be the wiser. Under actual shooting conditions, I did not find rangefinder flare to be a problem on my M6 versus any of the other cameras.

I don't think I'd pay more than a modest premium to get updated M7 DX reader and rangefinder.

NJH · Jul 21, 2016

One of the things I really liked with the M7 was the meter when in AE made it really quick and easy to scan up and down a scene and get a feel for the exposure range, then just half press in the exposure you want. Great for shooting slide film. You can also read the timer LEDs counting up (very bright in the dark) when holding the shutter open which is useful if one wants to use an M for long exposures. What I didn't like was the extra size and weight over my M6 so I sold the M7 and kept the 6, might seem like small amounts but personally I found it quite noticeable. The digital Ms of course are even worse in this regard. Really love the M6, its one of those cameras that is just right as it is.

faberryman · Jul 21, 2016

The M6 is 138mm × 77mm × 38mm and weighs 585 grams. The M7 is 138 x 79.5 x 34mm and weighs 610 grams. The differences are negligible.

NJH · Jul 21, 2016

Mine wasn't 25g heavier, I had the M7 with the 0.85 viewfinder and weighed it with batteries installed in both to be about 80g heavier than my M6. Don't know where you get the idea the M7 is 4mm thinner, I guess that is a typo. The extra height in the top plate is noticeable during handling, whether it makes much difference to a person is down to that individual. I find the M6 and similar Leicas perfect in the hand, M7 less so, digital Ms vastly worse. I owned both cameras at the same time and just preferred the feel of the M6 during use and in the end wasn't all that bothered about the loss of AE.

sepiareverb · Jul 21, 2016

An M7 can be troublesome, but Leica will put it all right. I've had several over the years, still have the first one and one with the 0.58 VF. They are wonderful cameras, with excellent handling, and as stated above very easy to use inAE mode. I will also agree that the updated DX reader is a big improvement, but the finder not that big a deal (I've shot many M cameras over the years and have not noticed any flare in an M6 vs M7,8,9 or an M2).

Drawbacks for me do relate to the batteries, but only in cold weather. I'm in VT where it gets VERY cold, and when it is very cold the batteries can be erratic. I'm finally at the age where I don't care to be out shooting when it's that cold, so no longer a real drawback...

As an investment I don't think bodies are worthwhile, and even glass is becoming less reliable. As a tool I'd say don't think twice, knowing that Leica stands behind their work and can repair/upgrade it as needed. if you like AE like I do, and have M or LTM glass jump!

semi-ambivalent · Jul 21, 2016

Ronald Moravec said:
A fool and his money are soon parted.

The 1500s called. They want their wisdom back...

jbmia · Jul 22, 2016

The M6 Classic I had flared enough to become annoying at times. I can't recall my M7 flaring at all really. My personal experience...

Leica M7 Advice

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