Leica m2 hard to wind.

Don_ih · Nov 3, 2024

The main problem with wd40 or any solvent put in a Leica is how easily it can get to both the shutter and the rangefinder. Everything is mechanically connected inside that body and those are two places you don't want any oil or solvent. But using a little on a brush to clean won't do any harm.

What set off the alarm bells and caused the uproar and indignation was:

250swb said:
run some WD-40 or naphtha into the mechanism

which sounds like "let wd40 or naphtha run freely into the camera.

Also, people just generally need to poo-poo. But everything @Light Capture said above is true - that's the guy who repaired my Hasselblad. There's a difference between the people who only say what you shouldn't do and those who say what you should. The former are generally not worth paying attention to.

BradS · Nov 3, 2024

250swb said:
Your claims may also have an element of the urban myth about them...

You don't have to believe me. Try it yourself. Use something metal - like a small tuna fish can (empty and washed & dried). Try several at once - one in a dark closet without much airflow, one out in the sun, one stashed under the sofa in the living room, spray some on the outside of the can, try different metals. Do the experiment. There is no need to speculate or to rely on myths or internet bullshit - do the experiment yourself ... or don't, I really don't care. I've done it. WD-40 will definitely, turn into a gummy, sticky mess and under some conditions, it will definitely grow mold.

250swb · Nov 4, 2024

Don_ih said:
The main problem with wd40 or any solvent put in a Leica is how easily it can get to both the shutter and the rangefinder. Everything is mechanically connected inside that body and those are two places you don't want any oil or solvent. But using a little on a brush to clean won't do any harm.

What set off the alarm bells and caused the uproar and indignation was:

which sounds like "let wd40 or naphtha run freely into the camera.

Also, people just generally need to poo-poo. But everything @Light Capture said above is true - that's the guy who repaired my Hasselblad. There's a difference between the people who only say what you shouldn't do and those who say what you should. The former are generally not worth paying attention to.

Well I take your point Don, but given the only mechanism under debate at the time was the film advance lever so that makes it pretty specific doesn't it? The 'alarm bells' were only sounded by people with either a short attention span (as in not even getting as far as the end of my sentence) or in a couple of cases simply the desire to big themselves up.

250swb · Nov 4, 2024

BradS said:
You don't have to believe me. Try it yourself. Use something metal - like a small tuna fish can (empty and washed & dried). Try several at once - one in a dark closet without much airflow, one out in the sun, one stashed under the sofa in the living room, spray some on the outside of the can, try different metals. Do the experiment. There is no need to speculate or to rely on myths or internet bullshit - do the experiment yourself ... or don't, I really don't care. I've done it. WD-40 will definitely, turn into a gummy, sticky mess and under some conditions, it will definitely grow mold.

Can I ask what prompted you to make this experiment? Fungi will grow anywhere where the the right conditions apply. An old lens at the back of a drawer in a humid climate is ideal because over the years it will have accumulated lots of fungus spores. But an open dish allows anything to fall into it, house dust which has a lot of skin in it, spores, bacteria, etc. which means it's not a definitive experiment, it left long enough there may be enough matter accumulated to allow seeds or mushrooms to thrive. And on the other hand one of the best preventative measures in stopping fungus spores growing inside a lens is light because UV light can kill fungus. But there are many subtle differences between mould and fungi even though they are basically the same thing and this is why you get fungus growing in your cellar and mould growing in your bathroom.

Rrrgcy · Nov 11, 2024

Piggyback to Chuckroast. Personal experience w machine tools and WD-40 - that its use in refined mechanisms (anything from stored vises, calipers, mics, various tooling and metal or in areas such as on stored firearms like for side-by-side shotgun located on/inside forend metal or on-bar or table) is no bueno. Sure, spray it in the tracks of your sliding glass door windows or on the axles of your lawnmower wheels. It’s not designed as a long term or fine lubricant but mostly water displacing … my experience is after much less than a year wherever you put it, after it has dried out somehow it oddly will have converted and left a slight semi-varnished gummy finish. It doesn’t just dry up and evaporate; my experience is it leaves a residue. Sure, it’ll lubricate and ’wet’ for a while but will eventually dry and leave something behind. Last thing I’d want inside my camera or inner gears or finer parts. it’s also fine to use as a cutting fluid for machining aluminum.

Disregarding substitutes like a fine Moebius watch oil (much less the specific oils designed and suitable for cameras like these), I suspect extremely controlled use of a ‘total loss‘ or dinosaur motor oil would serve you a million times better than WD-40. But as every amateur does, lighter fluid is likely safest.

baachitraka · Nov 11, 2024

250swb said:
As a diagnostic run some WD-40 or naphtha into the mechanism and see if that frees it up. It should hopefully loosen any sticky grease or other substance but when it evaporates the grease will harden again over a few days, but you'll know what you need to clean.

what?

baachitraka · Nov 11, 2024

Radost said:
I

am not returning the camera. Purchased it for very cheap. Also I want to learn to service them myself. I have heard and got bad experiences with the usual CLA suspects.

I don't underestimate you but I will never ever touch any camera for repairs. If you have enough cash it must go to a reputed shop for complete CLA.

baachitraka · Nov 11, 2024

Radost said:
I use white nafta/ Lighter fluid for it.
I have a repair manual but it has very little illustrations.

no and normally its not what you are thinking when it comes to repair.

baachitraka · Nov 11, 2024

Radost said:
I have the tools.

me too

baachitraka · Nov 11, 2024

mshchem said:
Hopefully you are a slow learner

hopefully never learns...pain to see one more M2 wiped out from the universe.

Don_ih · Nov 11, 2024

baachitraka said:
hopefully never learns...pain to see one more M2 wiped out from the universe.

It's his camera, he can do what he wants. Do you think people who know how to repair something simply popped into existence fully formed? Fell out of the sky? No, they had to learn.

baachitraka · Nov 11, 2024

Don_ih said:
It's his camera, he can do what he wants. Do you think people who know how to repair something simply popped into existence fully formed? Fell out of the sky? No, they had to learn.

but not with M2 please. The church of Rodinal ringing bills since morning...

250swb · Nov 11, 2024

baachitraka said:
what?

What don't you comprehend, what is troubling you, please explain.

baachitraka · Nov 12, 2024

250swb said:
What don't you comprehend, what is troubling you, please explain.

I don't really think Leica would ever use some materials that harden over time. I did not understand anyone's knowledge but WD-40 to M2 is absolute no go for me.

250swb · Nov 13, 2024

baachitraka said:
I don't really think Leica would ever use some materials that harden over time. I did not understand anyone's knowledge but WD-40 to M2 is absolute no go for me.

Of course they do, that is the major cause in having a camera serviced when the grease dries out and becomes hard or sticky. It's as dumb as saying a Rolls Royce never needs re-greasing from time to time, wheel bearing etc.. Grease is basically a liquid oil with a thickener and the oil evaporates over time leaving behind the thickener, your film advance lever may become stiff, the shutter button sticks down, and the shutter drags. So, what did you do when you sent your Leica for a CLA, did you ask the technician to leave the old grease because it is 'Leica grease'? And if you don't know how grease works what makes you think you know how WD-40 would work as a sparingly applied diagnostic tool tool?

Don_ih · Nov 13, 2024

baachitraka said:
I don't really think Leica would ever use some materials that harden over time.

Leitz specifies what lubricants to use. Every lubricant will eventually turn to caramel (for want of a better description). The lubricants specified are intended to work best until the camera is services again, which can be a long time, depending on how the camera was used and stored. The higher the temperature, the faster the lubricants degrade.

Anyway, the WD40 horse was dead long ago in this thread. No sense beating it now.

therepairman · Nov 13, 2024

Radost said:
Hi,
I got a great deal on an M2. Cleaned and lubricated the slow speeds.
Tried to do the same for the winder “which winds hard” but without success. Unless I don’t know exactly where to do it.
When I look on the inside it looks like a sticky substance has leaked inside. I don’t know if it is dried lubricants.
Gears look fine.
Any tips will be appreciated.
I don’t really want to spend money to send to CLA. Not this year

Hi.
I'm a professional vintage camera repairman and restorer in Miami.
There are no shortcuts, especially on a Leica.
If you got a great deal on it, it's probably wise to spend few bucks to have it totally restored by a pro.
Camera repair is way more complicated than you can imagine.
Tools, lubricants, parts, it's a whole world.
Stay away from cheap solutions.
Glad to help. Vieri

therepairman · Nov 13, 2024

250swb said:
Of course they do, that is the major cause in having a camera serviced when the grease dries out and becomes hard or sticky. It's as dumb as saying a Rolls Royce never needs re-greasing from time to time, wheel bearing etc.. Grease is basically a liquid oil with a thickener and the oil evaporates over time leaving behind the thickener, your film advance lever may become stiff, the shutter button sticks down, and the shutter drags. So, what did you do when you sent your Leica for a CLA, did you ask the technician to leave the old grease because it is 'Leica grease'? And if you don't know how grease works what makes you think you know how WD-40 would work as a sparingly applied diagnostic tool tool?

Guys. Stop.
I'm a professional vintage camera repairman and restorer.
NO grease and NO oil have to be used in camera repair.
Exactly as you hear.
With two exceptions.
A very special synthetic formula just for lens helicoids, and a Swiss made oil meant for watches (one drop is enough for one camera).
THAT'S IT!
Everything is meant to work "polished" with no lubricants.
You certainly can find in very old cameras traces of hardened grease, because that was the way the pioneers of film photography envisioned camera engineering. The reason that grease/oil has hardened is because they used organic substances, that today have been replaced by synthetic.
Have a great day!

therepairman · Nov 13, 2024

Don_ih said:
Leitz specifies what lubricants to use. Every lubricant will eventually turn to caramel (for want of a better description). The lubricants specified are intended to work best until the camera is services again, which can be a long time, depending on how the camera was used and stored. The higher the temperature, the faster the lubricants degrade.

Anyway, the WD40 horse was dead long ago in this thread. No sense beating it now.

Guys.
I'm a vintage camera repairman and restorer.
Up to the introduction of synthetic lubricants, Leica - like any other camera manufacturer - used organic lubricants that hardened with time.
They didn't use "specially formulated lubricants" because they did not manufacture them.
They used for sure the best they could find from suppliers, and the headache ended with synthetic.
Cheers.

therepairman · Nov 13, 2024

mshchem said:
Does the rewind knob turn freely without any film?

Absolutely.

therepairman · Nov 13, 2024

Radost said:
I am teaching myself how to service them. Too much hassle sending them to people. Also like I said I had bad CLA/service with 2 different people. One of them actually broke my camera

Guys. Stop.
I'm a vintage camera repairman and restorer.
Camera repair is a very serious business.
You need years of experience, tools, lubricants, literature, and a fair amount of mechanical engineering knowledge, especially when there are no references on a specific camera or lens, and you have to figure it out.
Plus a true dexterity with your hands!
There are different "levels" to repair a camera.
You can send the camera, the repairman assess the damage and he/she gives you an estimate.
Second, there's what I hate, called CLA (cleaning, lubricating, adjusting), because such a thing doesn't exist.
You need to open the camera in order to access to all components.
CLA means that you just remove old lubricants and put new ones.
That does NOTHING to your camera, especially if there are worn or broken parts, gears and/or curtains.
The third level, that's the serious thing to do, is a complete "RESTORATION".
It implies a complete disassembly of the camera up to the last screw/spring/gear, nothing left out, restoring each single piece, screw etc..
That will be the best investment of your life and it will give you a camera that will last for the next century.

mshchem · Nov 13, 2024

therepairman said:
Guys. Stop.
I'm a vintage camera repairman and restorer.
Camera repair is a very serious business.
You need years of experience, tools, lubricants, literature, and a fair amount of mechanical engineering knowledge, especially when there are no references on a specific camera or lens, and you have to figure it out.
Plus a true dexterity with your hands!
There are different "levels" to repair a camera.
You can send the camera, the repairman assess the damage and he/she gives you an estimate.
Second, there's what I hate, called CLA (cleaning, lubricating, adjusting), because such a thing doesn't exist.
You need to open the camera in order to access to all components.
CLA means that you just remove old lubricants and put new ones.
That does NOTHING to your camera, especially if there are worn or broken parts, gears and/or curtains.
The third level, that's the serious thing to do, is a complete "RESTORATION".
It implies a complete disassembly of the camera up to the last screw/spring/gear, nothing left out, restoring each single piece, screw etc..
That will be the best investment of your life and it will give you a camera that will last for the next century.

Welcome to Photrio. I hope you will continue to post here. I agree with you. I still have a repair shop in Moline IL that I use. When I have a camera that doesn't work it goes in for repair or I give it away.
I've used a bit of solvent on frozen gears in a $10 yard sale Hasselblad back, got it to work.

MattKing · Nov 13, 2024

If you have access to one of the few remaining repair resources for these items, I heartily recommend using them.
The only local to our province technician who had the appropriate tools, jigs and some parts died in the last couple of years. There are a few quasi-amateurs trying to learn, but other than that usually we have to export our cameras to get work done by anyone knowledgeable, and that brings its own problems.

Don_ih · Nov 13, 2024

therepairman said:
They didn't use "specially formulated lubricants" because they did not manufacture them.

I didn't say they did. Synthetic lubricants are not eternal, either. They last longer but not forever.

GregY · Nov 13, 2024

MattKing said:
If you have access to one of the few remaining repair resources for these items, I heartily recommend using them.
The only local to our province technician who had the appropriate tools, jigs and some parts died in the last couple of years. There are a few quasi-amateurs trying to learn, but other than that usually we have to export our cameras to get work done by anyone knowledgeable, and that brings its own problems.

Matt.... Next door in Alberta Gary Clennan is doing fine work at reasonable cost & in Cdn loonies $$....& has worked on just about anything imaginable. He's replaced a broken rangefinder glass on a Leica CL (found NOS part !)...& reformed the bent top....serviced a Perkeo ll and a Canon 28mm LTM....for me. Check out his website &/or instagram page.... www.lensmedicyyc.com

Leica m2 hard to wind.

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