Hopefully you are a slow learner
Correction:
i want to learn how to service and CLA my own cameras s I can do it by myself till I die.
Leica m2 hard to wind.
-
A
- Thread starter Radost
- Start date
Recent Classifieds
-
For Sale Stroboframe Adjustable Flash Bracket Reliable & Ready for More!
- Started by Gary892
-
For Sale Leica Focomat 1c enlarger, $100
- Started by Robbie Bedell
-
For Sale 4x5 holders
- Started by Peter Schrager
-
For Sale Nikkormat FT3 BLACK
- Started by Peter Schrager
-
For Sale Nagaoka 4X5 View Camera w/ Lens Boards
- Started by Beevo
Forum statistics
Correction:
i want to learn how to service and CLA my own cameras s I can do it by myself till I die.
On Photrio we are just at the point where CLA is suggested when you need to change film. Especially when Leicas are concerned.
If you have the tools, start disassembling the camera. See how far you get without forcing anything. Worst comes to worst, you can still switch camp and become a CLA worshipper. But, as already mentioned, you are not going to make it smooth with pouring oil into the camera.
That coming from a guy that has a bunch of cameras in plastic bags in pieces. My only excuse is that I started (and mostly also finished) with non-working cameras.
If you have the tools, start disassembling the camera. See how far you get without forcing anything. Worst comes to worst, you can still switch camp and become a CLA worshipper. But, as already mentioned, you are not going to make it smooth with pouring oil into the camera.
That coming from a guy that has a bunch of cameras in plastic bags in pieces. My only excuse is that I started (and mostly also finished) with non-working cameras.
In any case, best of luck with your repair! Let us know how it turns out and if you end up with a usable camera. At least the M2 has no electronics to fuss with.
LOL that's from the last owner spraying some WD40 in there to see what happens. I think M2 used like 20 different lubricants, all of which have consequences, and specialized tools...good luck we need competent people to keep these treasures out of the landfill.
WD40 should NEVER be used inside a camera. NEVER. It is a water displacement oil (hence the name) and leaves a residue behind that becomes a tarpit for dust and other grime.
Naptha can cure an ocean of problems by cleaning out packed grease and lubricants, and I've fixed any number of cameras that way. However, it does not relubricate metal surfaces and gear interfaces. Hence, naptha is usually not a long term fix for most things.
A CLA involves Cleaning AND Lubricating AND Adjusting, not just hosing down the mechanics in hopes it will work better.
Be aware that the Wezlar ethos for learning to do this was pretty demanding. Apprentices started out making their own adjustment tools as their first task. They were taught to open and close the camera in such a way that no one could tell that the screw heads had ever seen a screwdriver. Everything was done to a precise standard and in pristine working conditions.
This is why Leica repair is taking so long right now. Their older repairmen are all retiring and they are having trouble finding the next generation of people willing to work to this level of quality standard - or at least, the pipeline is slow given the required training time.
The point is that, even though these are old machines, they were built to very tight tolerances requiring great care in disassembly and reassembly. I don't know about Leicas, but I have seen examples of cameras where washers had to be installed in a specific order, some parts had to be soaked in heated oil for a prescribed time, and other little fiddly details like this that only an expert would know.
I am mechanically quite adept and comfortable taking things apart and reassembling them, but I wouldn't take a Nikon apart to do anything major, let alone a Leica.
I have had very good outcomes with CLAs from both YYE and DAG.
Its more of the economics of it, a properly serviced M2 is worth a lot of money and will keep going up in value. He could sell it and buy a whole bag of broken cameras with the profits.
I always buy broken cameras to repair, but when I bought a M3 I hesitated pulling it apart as to do so destroys the last service persons seal and devalues the camera. As it was I was able to get it running with some TLC.
Don, Radost opened with "I want to learn how to service CLA my own cameras."
An experienced, competent repair person wouldn't come here asking for "how-to" advice....
"Incompetent" ....no ..... inexperienced and bold... absolutely.
It's his money to lose, though. The camera clearly doesn't work properly and he says he didn't spend much on it. Broken Leica M cameras are not easily found, actually. He could probably get enough experience on Leica IIIC or F cameras to work on an M reasonably well. But even those are not actually cheap. He won't learn unless he tries.
He didn't say he was experienced. But that doesn't mean he can't fix the camera. Working on one of these cameras involves patience and care and the proper tools (which generally amounts to the right standard screwdrivers).
My only point is: it's a bit obtuse to think he isn't aware of the monetary value of the camera and the possibility of doing something incorrectly. He's not a child.
So I cleaned everything I could see is related to the wind. No change.
The one thing that I could not see where it came is this.
The one thing that I could not see where it came is this.
It appears to be mis-aligned with its neighbor...maybe a spacer/washer is missing from underneath the worn gear?
Perhaps the "hard to advance" issue is from that gear rubbing on the bottom edge?
* I am not a camera repair person, nor do I play one on TV.
Perhaps the "hard to advance" issue is from that gear rubbing on the bottom edge?
* I am not a camera repair person, nor do I play one on TV.
Yeah, looks pretty chewed up.
I might have to send it to somebody. ): don't hav
I lifted that gear and winded. No difference.
I lifted that gear and winded. No difference.
I did say use it as a diagnostic, as in see if it temporarily loosens the mechanism up and then you'd know which part needs taking apart to clean and re-lube. That was kind of implied by the words I used. You can apply WD-40 with a fine brush to specific parts and not hose it down but I guess if hosing it down was the first thing that came to your mind you especially should steer clear of trying to fix anything.
Because it's misaligned, some bit of chewed-off metal may have worked its way along the gears to some point inside. If you want parts, you can email DAG - he has everything. But because there is the likelihood of crud deep inside the advance/shutter-cock mechanism, the camera should be probably be completely dismantled.
If that's your goal it might be a much better idea to learn on a much less valuable camera such as a Canon or one of the Russian rangefinders.
Several years ago I bought an M2 for $250. It had a shutter that didn't time right. Sent it to KEH and they serviced it and fixed the shutter for around $300. Money well spent - that camera has been with me all over the world and can be relied upon.
Sending a camera in the mail is not complicated and not a hassle.
That's good advice!
When this is lifted and wound, you loose sync between take up sprocket wheel and winding lever. There is a specific jig to align this.
Winding force depends on several things.
Lubricant in the assemble bellow winding lever.
Lubricant in this gear and sprocket wheel bearings.
Lubricant in and around the gear on the bottom side of the sprocket wheel.
Most common case is the shutter curtains were adjusted to move too fast hence the resistance in winding.
In some cases it's the combination of all of these. How to sync all of these is described in the service manual. All illustrations and clearances are there.
Travel speed of the curtains should be in the range from 12.7-14.2 ms (I try to stay within these specs as that will make camera work properly and wind easily).
If it's taken apart, sprocket wheel, winding mechanism bellow lever, take-up reel notch, main shutter drum, stop for the winding drum all need to be synced to work together.
Cause for need to speed up the shutter curtains in order to get reasonable shutter speeds is most of the time dried grease in the spring drums (smaller ones on the right side when looking from the front).
Main drum lubrication and clearances can be an issue.
Difference between standard CLA offered is that camera is serviced and returned back to specs.
Leica service and complete CLA are several times more and camera is basically stripped down to the last screw, everything is cleaned and then assembled, synced, aligned and properly lubricated.
When done this way, it keeps adjustments for a long time.
There's a long list of what needs to be in place and check out for Leica to work within factory specifications.
WD-40 will do a great job gumming up the mechanism.
So how does that work if a mechanism is already gummed up? Will WD-40 double gum it? Do you understand that making a diagnosis is not the same as a repair or CLA, it's to find where the problem is, it isn't and never was suggested as a fix for the problem. It's why a doctor uses his stethoscope to diagnose a heart problem but doesn't use a stethoscope to cure a heart problem. Clearly the idea of checking the simple things first, before moving on to a full repair or service eludes you, but for everybody else out there it's to be hoped that if you go to said doctor with chest pains caused by indigestion they don't decide you need open heart surgery without checking the basic's first.
It would be interesting to know however under what circumstances WD-40 actively gums mechanisms up, I can't think of anything not already covered. Please enlighten us.
WD-40 and lighter fluid will flush out lubricants to places where they shouldn't be and potentially damage something.
Beside water displacement WD-40 is also penetrating lubricant. It's definitely not advisable that lubricant penetrates everywhere in the camera.
There's also interaction with and between other lubricants. Even when correct lubricant is used some of the older lubricants don't like to mix with anything and will gum up after some time.
The right way is to clean completely or lubricate very carefully and only when knowing that there's no interaction.
Benzine is recommended by Leica for cleaning in their manuals. Lighter fluid is the same. It shouldn't be used indiscriminately.
Beside water displacement WD-40 is also penetrating lubricant. It's definitely not advisable that lubricant penetrates everywhere in the camera.
There's also interaction with and between other lubricants. Even when correct lubricant is used some of the older lubricants don't like to mix with anything and will gum up after some time.
The right way is to clean completely or lubricate very carefully and only when knowing that there's no interaction.
Benzine is recommended by Leica for cleaning in their manuals. Lighter fluid is the same. It shouldn't be used indiscriminately.
Spray some in a dish and let it sit out in the air for a few months / years. See what happens.
It turns sticky then hardens up and if not in direct sun it is likely to mold.
Two things, the theory was the mechanism is going to be stripped down anyway and cleaned and correct new grease applied to lube it (not WD-40) and if sunlight is getting inside your supposedly close fitting precision components can I suggest you have a much bigger problem.
Your claims may also have an element of the urban myth about them, given according to the manufacturers WD-40 was used to protect the outer skin of the Atlas rocket back in the day
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40
https://www.wd40.com/myths-legends-fun-facts/
And it may be alarming information given the worry about lens fungus but we are surrounded all day by billions of air born fungi spores! So whatever lands on your open dish of WD-40 after it has evaporated may indeed be fungus, but then the same could be said for leaving a bucket of water out and see what eventually grows on the surface. But the question is would fungus land on it in a closed environment like a camera mechanism, or by putting a lid on the bucket
Last edited:
| Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links. To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here. |
PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:  |