Leica M-A light leaks

[ediz7531]

I'm wondering if anyone here who owns an M-A has found these light leaks as well. I got one leak in the most recent roll, and some 4-5 in the third-to-last roll, all in the same general area - lower left of the negative.
I do know about the light leaks on the M5, and these look a bit similar. I thought that issue was specific to the M5?

 

[Huss]

Hmm, that almost looks like a hole burnt in to the shutter. Which can happen on any M film camera.

 

[Nitroplait]

Hmm, that almost looks like a hole burnt in to the shutter. Which can happen on any M film camera.

Yeah. That was my first thought. Easy to check.

 

[ediz7531]

I did check for pinholes in the curtains by shining a flashlight in a dark room, shutter both cocked and uncocked. I didn’t see any.

 

[ic-racer]

What does the negative look like?

 

[Light Capture]

I did check for pinholes in the curtains by shining a flashlight in a dark room, shutter both cocked and uncocked. I didn’t see any.

Is the light leak the same on all images?

It might not show anything in these two positions.
If it's half wound, metal edges of both shutter curtains will be in the middle of the frame. Very often when shutter curtain fails, failure is located next to the crimped metal edge.

On the other hand, if it was a hole in the shutter, I would expect more effect across the frame. It would be either well defined if very small or travelling smear if it travelled the whole way.

 

[ediz7531]

What does the negative look like?

One can clearly see it on the negative, so it’s not a scanning artifact.

Is the light leak the same on all images?

It might not show anything in these two positions.
If it's half wound, metal edges of both shutter curtains will be in the middle of the frame. Very often when shutter curtain fails, failure is located next to the crimped metal edge.

On the other hand, if it was a hole in the shutter, I would expect more effect across the frame. It would be either well defined if very small or travelling smear if it travelled the whole way.

Correct. Lower left on the frames it’s appeared on.

 

[MattKing]

One can clearly see it on the negative, so it’s not a scanning artifact.

But how does it appear on the negative, and does it extend outside the frame?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Remember the lens flips things over so look at the top right corner for the light leak or shutter hole.

 

[ediz7531]

But how does it appear on the negative, and does it extend outside the frame?

Please see two example negatives. One of them is from a different roll.

Remember the lens flips things over so look at the top right corner for the light leak or shutter hole.

Indeed I did take this into account.

 

[Sirius Glass]

The mark of the light leak is the same on both negatives.

 

[Light Capture]

Please see two example negatives. One of them is from a different roll.



Indeed I did take this into account.

Does it appear on unexposed frames at the start of the roll?
Light leak is in the same general spot but start of the leak is around half sprocket width different. Intensity and shape seems slightly different.
Characteristic of very small pinhole light leaks is that it will be very weak if time between shots is short and if more time passes between shots light leak will be stronger.
Light leak on second attached image is much more pronounced.

From my many light leak investigations, I found more than few leaks that couldn't be easily found with a flashlight test in a darkroom.
To gain little bit more sensitivity, eyes can be closed in a darkroom and one eye is brought close to the lens opening and basically left in the dark.
You can use black foam or cloth around lens mount to isolate eye from any stray light and then shine the flashlight from the back.

Other way. More sensitive. Is to use a digital camera from the mount side and again use black foam or cloth to prevent light from getting in between the digital camera lens and shutter curtains and shine from the back side.
Long exposure on high ISO should show if there are any light leaks on curtains or not. This can be tested in wound, half wound and tripped positions as well.

 

[ediz7531]

Does it appear on unexposed frames at the start of the roll?
Light leak is in the same general spot but start of the leak is around half sprocket width different. Intensity and shape seems slightly different.
Characteristic of very small pinhole light leaks is that it will be very weak if time between shots is short and if more time passes between shots light leak will be stronger.
Light leak on second attached image is much more pronounced.

From my many light leak investigations, I found more than few leaks that couldn't be easily found with a flashlight test in a darkroom.
To gain little bit more sensitivity, eyes can be closed in a darkroom and one eye is brought close to the lens opening and basically left in the dark.
You can use black foam or cloth around lens mount to isolate eye from any stray light and then shine the flashlight from the back.

Other way. More sensitive. Is to use a digital camera from the mount side and again use black foam or cloth to prevent light from getting in between the digital camera lens and shutter curtains and shine from the back side.
Long exposure on high ISO should show if there are any light leaks on curtains or not. This can be tested in wound, half wound and tripped positions as well.

I appreciate your thorough instructions. I found using a digital camera a little cumbersome, so I just tried again using my eyes, after letting them acclimatize to the dark. I do not see any pinholes at wound, unwound, or mid-wound.

I’m inclined to pack it up and send it to Sherry or DAG at this point.

 

[Light Capture]

I appreciate your thorough instructions. I found using a digital camera a little cumbersome, so I just tried again using my eyes, after letting them acclimatize to the dark. I do not see any pinholes at wound, unwound, or mid-wound.

I’m inclined to pack it up and send it to Sherry or DAG at this point.

The only other thing you could try before sending it is taping all seams around the camera to try it that way.
Also, holding the negative the way it gets exposed in the camera and observing possibilities might point you somewhere.

 

[Sirius Glass]

The only other thing you could try before sending it is taping all seams around the camera to try it that way.
Also, holding the negative the way it gets exposed in the camera and observing possibilities might point you somewhere.

Even if he finds the leak someone with still have to fix it. Forget the tape and ship it out for repair. The sooner it is sent out, the sooner he will have it back to use again.

 

[Huss]

The only other thing you could try before sending it is taping all seams around the camera to try it that way.
Also, holding the negative the way it gets exposed in the camera and observing possibilities might point you somewhere.

If that would 'fix' the light leak , then the light leak would not just be in the image area, but also across the edge of the rebate.
It is not, so taping stuff up will do nothing.

This really looks like a hole in the shutter. I've had the notorious M5 leak (fixed by the amazing Zacks when everyone else failed!) it is does not look like this.
Holes in the shutter can be really hard to see...

 

[MattKing]

If that would 'fix' the light leak , then the light leak would not just be in the image area, but also across the edge of the rebate.
It is not, so taping stuff up will do nothing.

I see the leak extending down into a sprocket hole, which complicate the matter somewhat.

 

[Light Capture]

If that would 'fix' the light leak , then the light leak would not just be in the image area, but also across the edge of the rebate.
It is not, so taping stuff up will do nothing.

This really looks like a hole in the shutter. I've had the notorious M5 leak (fixed by the amazing Zacks when everyone else failed!) it is does not look like this.
Holes in the shutter can be really hard to see...

I see the leak extending down into a sprocket hole, which complicate the matter somewhat.

As MattKing noted second image of negative shows light leak going into rebate section. It could still be leak through the shutter but light leaks can be quite unpredictable and hard to diagnose.
I dealt with many light leaks that couldn't be seen in normal way. Different intensity, location and shape of the leak on two images is also adding complexity.
Method of elimination is always the best. Eliminating possibilities one by one at a time. In this case it would eliminate any leaks through body and leave shutter.

Other thing that is very helpful is using few frames at a time and doing quick development in tank pulling film out and cutting. That way one roll and few hours will troubleshoot the most stubborn light leaks.
A couple of shots with body cap on will eliminate shutter. Exposing body to strobes from different angles will show leaks more easily.

My personal method in this case would be digital camera on high ISO and long exposure combined with strobe from different directions. That would save lots of time.
Checking through lens mount would resolve that side. The easies way with film is to use darkroom changing bag for testing. Elastic sleeve can be put around lens and only light is coming through the lens.
If this produces light leak, than it must be through the shutter.
So far, in my opinion, I don't think any causes are completely excluded.

 

[250swb]

My 2 cents says it's a hole in the curtain. It's very specific and consistent between the two examples, but holes in curtains can show up differently depending on time between shots and if the lens is capped between shots. They can also be various shapes, not simply round, depending on how long the sun has tracked across the shutter. And at the end of the day the M-A isn't an old camera, so it's to early for any light seals to degrade etc.

 

[Huss]

Checking through lens mount would resolve that side. The easies way with film is to use darkroom changing bag for testing. Elastic sleeve can be put around lens and only light is coming through the lens.
If this produces light leak, than it must be through the shutter...

That is a great idea, as that blocks off every other possible area of light leak. Including the rf window that has resulted in the light leaks in M5s.

Darkroom changing bags are cheap and really handy to have anyway.

 

[ediz7531]

The M-A is on its way to Leica NJ. Will report back on the root cause.

 

[ediz7531]

Well, to my very pleasant surprise, Leica NJ is repairing it under warranty, although I won't know exactly what the problem is until I get it back. I know the camera was made in June 2020, but I bought it used on a FB group, and it didn't come with a copy of the original receipt.
From searching online, I'd simply assumed I'd have to foot the repair bill. Should be done in a few weeks I'm told.

I guess since it's a warranty repair, I surmise it can't be a shutter curtain hole, as that's likely considered user-induced (?)

 

[Huss]

Well, to my very pleasant surprise, Leica NJ is repairing it under warranty, although I won't know exactly what the problem is until I get it back. I know the camera was made in June 2020, but I bought it used on a FB group, and it didn't come with a copy of the original receipt.
From searching online, I'd simply assumed I'd have to foot the repair bill. Should be done in a few weeks I'm told.

I guess since it's a warranty repair, I surmise it can't be a shutter curtain hole, as that's likely considered user-induced (?)

Well you won't know until you get it back. But that is very good svc by Leica, plus they will also make sure everything else is ok too - RF alignment, shutter speeds etc

 

[Nitroplait]

Well, to my very pleasant surprise, Leica NJ is repairing it under warranty, although I won't know exactly what the problem is until I get it back. I know the camera was made in June 2020, but I bought it used on a FB group, and it didn't come with a copy of the original receipt.
From searching online, I'd simply assumed I'd have to foot the repair bill. Should be done in a few weeks I'm told.

I guess since it's a warranty repair, I surmise it can't be a shutter curtain hole, as that's likely considered user-induced (?)

Great that they honor the "implicit" warranty - it is a very new camera after all. Fujifilm did a free logic board replacement on my X100F more than two years off warranty and no receipt - and I wasn't even the first or second owner - so sometimes companies understand they may have an interests in providing service beyond their strictly legal obligations.
But anyway; That makes me wonder why you had the courage to buy such new camera without a copy of the original receipt? A camera less than two years old without a copy of the original receipt would have raised a warning flag or two in my head.

 

[ediz7531]

Great that they honor the "implicit" warranty - it is a very new camera after all. Fujifilm did a free logic board replacement on my X100F more than two years off warranty and no receipt - and I wasn't even the first or second owner - so sometimes companies understand they may have an interests in providing service beyond their strictly legal obligations.
But anyway; That makes me wonder why you had the courage to buy such new camera without a copy of the original receipt? A camera less than two years old without a copy of the original receipt would have raised a warning flag or two in my head.

These are subjective matters, so not really. I know the previous owner, and they are honorable; I asked enough questions to be satisfied.