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John Cook

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I am not joking, Joe. And I don't think I need my head examined.

I did not realize I was going to have to explain this, but I guess I am.

As a professional, I need to know various things about a film before I feel confident to take it on a commercial assignment.

I need to know, for example, how the film will react to filtration. No b&w film is perfectly panchromatic. No film renders subjects exactly as the human eye does. The human eye is not perfectly panchromatic either. What happens to blue sky behind green foliage? Will a K2 fix it? Are shadows (lit with blue skylight) deeper than with other films?

How does the film “see” ultraviolet? Some studio flash units put out a lot of it. UV penetrates facial skin a few millimeters before being reflected back. It is as if the top layer of skin were missing. A film which is very sensitive to UV will accentuate capillaries under skin when lit with some studio flash. Everyone has a nose like W. C. Fields. Tmax has a tendency in this direction for me.

What about long exposures? Is the manufacturer’s reciprocity table accurate?

Does the film have a long or short toe? At what point will the shoulder (and highlight detail) block up with overexposure?

Ektapan was designed especially for studio lighting with electronic flash. Some films handle flare well, others do not.

Can I get sufficient dark gray detail to render a navy blue wool suit or ranch mink coat with enough detail to still “read” in a newspaper picture made with a 65-line screen? Can I get it without having the model's blonde hair blow out?

How does this film react with dilute high-acutance developers? Traditional high-speed emulsions are highly affected. Ilford Delta reacts no differently to ID-11 than to FX-1.

What development is required to print on matte fiber paper vs. RC glossy. How about when toned with sepia? An 8x10 Deardorff with a 4x5 reducing back produces much more contrasty negatives than a 4x5 field or technical camera with tiny tapered bellows, due to internal flare.

There is no such thing as telling a client that “it didn’t come out”.

This kind of intimacy with a film cannot, in my experience, be achieved with “a bunch of rolls in no time”. It took me many hours over several years and oodles of money. Not an investment I’d do again in a film likely to disappear soon.
 

gnashings

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David Henderson said:
Just a couple of final thoughts for you. First, do you think that by behaving in this way you might just contribute to the decision you fear? Second, taking a longer term viewpoint, do you think that because Ilford has fought its way out of difficulty recently that the availability of HP5 ( as todays most accessible alternative) is any more guaranteed than Tri-X?

Uhm... wake up : IT (dumping the traditional photo market) IS IN THEIR MISSION STATEMENT.
Our actions don't influence them, the decision is already made... And yes, I have more faith in Ilford - or I am at least willing to support a company that lists ME as their client over one that basically disowned me - even if it means going down with their (Ilford's) sinking ship...

If your wife told you that she met someone else, but has to get some things to straighten out, finances to organize, before she moves out - so she will be hanging around the house for a few more months...would you continue your "relationship" as if nothing was wrong? What, all of you "enjoy it while you still have it" people: no? Not even if she was real purdy and a firecracker to boot? Come on...

I refuse to be anyone's beggar - and I don't like digital photography - right now, that means Ilford, some smaller specialists and you know - even Agfa deserves more of my cash, at least they died trying. So its a matter of principal. And hopefully, when all these intelligent moves that Kodak is making finally come around to bite them on the ass, someone will pick up the tooling and formulation fo TriX in the fire sale...
 

Bill Mobbs

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BradS said:
I do not believe that anybody can predict with any certainty what-so-ever the future availability of Kodak, Ilford or any other B&W film. Any attempt to do so is necessarily based upon pure speculation.
Fintan, I feel the same as Brad. There is no certainty in this world, and we all might well learn to live with it. I use T-Max 100 & 400, Tri-X, HP5, Fuji Acro 100, Fuji Neopan 400, Ilford Delta 400, FP4+, Pan-F. I am into T-Max developer, Hc-110, ID-11, Xtol. I look through the pile of film and use the one that fits my mood this morning. When I get back to the darkroom I use the develop that will give me the result that I want based on the subject matter and conditions that I shot the film under. Do I test anything... Yes I do! I keep good records of everything and refer to them alot. Unless one of these suppliers changes something, I get the results I want. Tommorrow is another day... I may order something from J & C. If everybody quits making everything... One of the glass window panes in my bed room is just about 8X10. :D
 
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Fintan

Fintan

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David Henderson said:
First, do you think that by behaving in this way you might just contribute to the decision you fear?

I wasnt going to reply to this point which is complete crap but....

Kodak have said "Kodak will discontinue the production and sale of black and white photographic papers as part of its worldwide digital growth strategy"

Kodak can stick their digital growth strategy where the sun dont shine. Much as I love TriX I'd rather spend my cash with a supplier much more committed to analog photography. And me not buying tri-x or asking for advice on alternative isnt going to impact that. Get real.

My original question was;
Is there anyone that has been using TriX for years and has moved to another film? Can anyone make a suggestion given the info I provided above.

Thanks to everyone that offered film suggestions, I appreciate your views, the other general rants I can do without. I'm upset enough. :mad:

Fintan
 

BradS

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I guess, I'd consider Fuji Neopan 400 and 1600. Availability here in the states is spotty (in my limited experience) but may be better there in Eire.
 

bjorke

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df cardwell said:
Tri X will be the last film made by anybody, anywhere, ever.
I entirely agree. Heck, last year Kodak had a gallery show in Japan about Tri-X.

Tri-X is inextricably linked to the Kodak brand. The brand is the company. Without it they are just a bunch of buildings and half-baked business plans.
 

MurrayMinchin

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Fintan said:
My original question was;
Is there anyone that has been using TriX for years and has moved to another film? Can anyone make a suggestion given the info I provided above.

I'm with you Buddy!

I just received 75 sheets of HP5+ in the mail yesterday and I've got a week off work coming up...guess what I'm doing on my holidays :smile:

I expect it'll take a few years before I can make intuitive leaps of faith like I could with Tri-X and HC-110. That's OK...I'm a patient man and what little money I have I like to see fall into the right hands.

Murray
 

MikeSeb

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arigram said:
- Its easier to find the times for Ilford films as the british company is more relaxed with its info regarding combos with other brands (for example I love Ilfosol-S as a developer and can't find times for TriX)

There is a small amount of information on this combo listed at
Massive Dev Chart. It may not be enough to help you.
 

David A. Goldfarb

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bjorke said:
Tri-X is inextricably linked to the Kodak brand. The brand is the company. Without it they are just a bunch of buildings and half-baked business plans.

There were Kodak folks who said the same of Kodachrome not long ago.

Regarding the original question--I think J&C Classic 400 is the most Tri-X-ish film out there at the moment in terms of tonality. It requires more careful handling than Kodak or Ilford film, but on the upside the highlights are a little more controllable than with TXP. I find my processing times and speeds for Classic 400 are pretty close to my times for the old TXT sheet film.
 

mmcclellan

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Fintan,

Frankly, I don't think there is anything as good as Tri-X. While the old 3-notch version is out of production, TX-P will be in for the forseeable future, and you can always stock up in quantity and freeze it. A number of top shooters swore by "Tri-X and HC-110" and in my experience there is no combination like it. Why not just fly to NYC and get a suitcase full, freeze it, and never have to worry about film again?! :smile:)

But if you do have to switch for whatever reason, HP-5 is an alternative, but it's not the same stuff by any means. Slower speed (my test show it's a full stop slower), different look and grain, the whole bit. Not bad stuff, just different.

If you work well with Tri-X and it has served you well all these years, I would not give it up until they pull the last sheet out of my cold dead hands!
 

Mark Layne

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Jun 9, 2003
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Tri X 400 still has the best MIDTONE tonality of any film made. Sadly it is not available in sheet.
Mark
 

arigram

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Sep 21, 2004
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MikeSeb said:
There is a small amount of information on this combo listed at
Massive Dev Chart. It may not be enough to help you.

Thanks Mike, but I have researched a lot everything that has to do with film photography on the net.
The Massive Dev Chart is far from complete and it does not have all combos.

I prefer to stick with Ilford's own list of film/developers which includes everything I use and unlike All Mighty Kodak is humble enough to include info for other manufacturers' film and developers.
 

df cardwell

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Take a look in the NYT for the real storyl. Geez, you're a bunch of gossips.
 

hortense

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Jun 17, 2004
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When "push comes to shove", I guess I will go to Ilford HP5+. So, I'll be testing soon. When speed is not needed, I've found that Neopan Acro is outstanding when developed in Extol.
 

fhovie

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Mar 20, 2003
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Powell Wyoming
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I have used a lot of HP5 and a lot of TRI-X - I keep coming back to TRI-X. The HP5 has wierd grain - less accutance and does not handle compression as well as TRI-X. I just shot a sunrise over mono lake in tri-x - I got all 12 stops on the negative in a DR of 1.25 with undetectable flare and great sharpness. Of course Rodenstock had something to do with it but TRI-X made it possible. I have also recently shot a lot of TMY. The grain is a little finer and it expands more easily than TRI-X. They both push pretty well. For imposible shots, I always feel more secure with TRI-X. I just put 30 more rolls in the freezer today. I will buy it until the product no longer meets my needs or when they stop making it. If I can't use Kodak, my next choice will be Ilford. I use a lot of FP4 now but for ASA (80) - I like APX100 better for as long as I can get it.
 

Paul Howell

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I have used TriX for the past 40 years, but I am testing D777 and Edwal 12 with differnt developers as I have wanted to standardize my developer and film combinations across formats. So far D 777 and HP5 and PF4 look very good, I have not yet been able to get a really good TriX negative from D 777, but Edwal 12 and Tri X seem to be a good match in low contrast lighting. What draws me to HP5 and D 777 is that it is the same film in 35, MF, and LF while with TriX there are 2 emulsions that need to developed at different times and print somewhat differently. My Tri X regiment is 35 in Microdol X, stock or 1:3, or 76 1:1, or push in Acufine, 120 in HC110 and 4X5 in DK50 or HC110. HP5 in D 777 is very appealing to me as long I can get D 777. I hope to fine tune my times in the next couple of week.
 

jim appleyard

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Paul Howell said:
I have used TriX for the past 40 years, but I am testing D777...QUOTE]

Is this the same 777 of Harvey's Panthermic 777 fame? I'm not familiar with D777.
 

c6h6o3

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Oct 16, 2002
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Paul Howell said:
I am testing D777

Are you making your own from scratch, or are you buying the powders from Bluegrass?
 
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