Learning how to "self meter"

[removed account4]

hi ces1um

have you seen this website ?
http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm

good luck
john

 

[MattKing]

I've located a Kodak Master Photoguide and it should be wending its way to Ces1um shortly.

I actually was able to put my hands on 4 of them without much looking - I wonder whether I have even more of them!

I chose one of the 1976 versions for sending to Nova Scotia.

My looking through the choices made me think a bit about the discussion in this thread.

At the risk of splitting hairs, I would say that no one I know is able to accurately measure the exposure for a photograph without using an exposure meter.

What we are able to do is, with care and experience, evaluate lighting conditions, compare the results of our evaluations with known past conditions and specify exposure settings that are likely to be appropriate.

The Master Photoguides help because they contain usable references that are easy to recognize and to make reference to. They include much of the experience that is otherwise so hard won.

Unfortunately, they also include all sorts of references to Kodak films that no longer are made

 

[Dan Daniel]

hi ces1um

have you seen this website ?
http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm

good luck
john

Second this. It will really upset the 149 point matrix metering crowd, but there is really a pretty limited range of lighting. And exposure is pretty simple. Three variables, one of which is 'fixed' by the film.

Along with Fred Parker's approach, I spent time making notes in a little notebook. With a pen or pencil, not with a smartphone or such (there is a difference). I really didn't even need to go back and compare the notebook to the actual negative. Just writing the notes made it all fall into place after some time.

 

[SalveSlog]

Our pupil is quite analog to the camera aperture, so I've been fantasising about using it for a lightmeter. Maybe looking at it in a concave mirror at a standard distance and judging its size compared to my finger. But then .. I might as well carry a lightmeter as carry that mirror!!

Seriously, I've been practising what others have suggested: guess the exposure values and then pick up my lightmeter from my pocket and check it. I'm getting better..

 

[markbarendt]

I think the biggest part of learning this is simply practicing with a meter.

Carry a meter all the time. Guess, check yourself, and repeat about 10,000 times. Do it in all the different types of situations you like to shoot in.

 

[removed account4]

hi matt

i agree ( kinda sorta ) ... but isn't everything the result of our experience and evaluation ?
from using a poor in camera meter to not knowing how to meter a scene correctly ... to compensation /personal iso's &c ...

john

 

[RobC]

I think the biggest part of learning this is simply practicing with a meter.

Carry a meter all the time. Guess, check yourself, and repeat about 10,000 times. Do it in all the different types of situations you like to shoot in.

I can imagine that if you are out photographing everyday you could get quite good at it. BUT if you aren't out everyday or have a break from it I rekon you'll be back to square one. A meter gives you repeatability/consistency. Your eyes judgement won't as the OP has already stated.

 

[Ces1um]

I shoot about a roll a week. Sometimes more, sometimes less. So, about 36 shots. It's not a huge volume but it's enough to put a dent into my visa bill Costs me about $28 to develop, scan (and put on cd) and print a roll. Plus about $10-12 bucks for a nice roll of film like Ektar or Tri-x (it costs and extra $10 to develop the tri-x though because they send it out). Anybody in Atlantic Canada find a better price?

 

[Rick A]

If you really want to dial in shooting without a meter, you need to have a darkroom to print the results. Then you will truly understand what you are doing right or wrong, and learn.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Ok I will jump in here and give my 2cents, I learned this from my first wedding photographer teacher.

This applies to daylight and flash so bear with me a bit.

The very first test requires a flash meter and then you move on

Establish your guide number by focusing your camera, close up - then go to 3/4 pose - then go to full length - then move way back . pop a flash and measure the apeture setting for your
film rating- for example I used VPS and at close up my flash was f22, 3/4 length 11 - full length 5.6 . This is using the flash at full power - everything being equal with the unit these settings never
changed. So if you were indoors relying on your flash the you would set apeture based on the image you were cropping and if you were in between you would adjust the apeture.

Establish on a sunny day what your OPEN SHADE aperture is with the film you are using.. for example with VPS film 1/125 at f5.6 was normal in Hamilton Ontario where we worked. On a rainy day
or heavy cload it would be 1/125 at f5.6.
In the sun light our readings would be 1/125 at f 16/22.

So by knowing this range from f5.6 in open shade to f 16/22 in bright sunlight you could determine your base exposure.. and also since you know what your flash is pumping out you can balance the two
which we always did.
So a large group would be put in Open Shade area - camera would be set at 1/125 at f5.6 and full power flash , basically we would be about 15-20 ft away so the flash filled in nicely.

Once you grasp this idea. then another bit of 2cents is this.

If its very sunny out no clouds then your main exposure(in sunlight) will always be with VPS film 1/125 f16/22
If a small clouds start coming between sun and subject then you will be at 1/125 f 11/16
If bigger clouds start coming in between sun and subject then you will be at 1/125 f8/11
If monster clouds completely come in between sun and subject you will be at 1/25 f4/f5.6

If you are in a forest and the trees canopy is heavy then you will need to open up the lens or longer exposure with this same film.

You pretty much take this to the bank, as there really is light source and subject unless of course the sun goes super nova - what is in front of the light source that could bring down the intensity of light and this is what
you should be looking for.

I never met a wedding photographer back in the 70's who used a meter , and after thousands of exposures and then printing these negatives I found Mr Philips method
of exposure calculation to work.

Bob

 

[markbarendt]

I can imagine that if you are out photographing everyday you could get quite good at it. BUT if you aren't out everyday or have a break from it I rekon you'll be back to square one. A meter gives you repeatability/consistency. Your eyes judgement won't as the OP has already stated.

Sure there is a learning curve but it's also a lot like riding a bike, it's a talent that may get rusty if not practiced but it comes back quick.

I do agree that using a meter can be very consistent but even metering is dependent on the users system and their status of being in practice, especially if using a reflective metering system.

 

[TheToadMen]

... That being said, I could certainly sign up for a course somewhere, but given the fact that digital is so prevalent I doubt anybody is giving a course on this subject. Any pearls of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

Hi,
Learning just for the sake of it can be fun too, I agree.

Practicing yourself is probably better than taking a course. I did/do this and I'm getting better at it too. I often carry a simple small camera without a light meter or a pinhole camera and would like to guesstimate the exposure - just because I can. When I bring a serious camera on a serious shooting, then I'll bring along a decent handheld light meter. But doing without is also fun and helps to capture more of those fleeting moments - that are so often gone by the time I took out my light meter to take a reading first.

Maybe this could be a simple way to practice. Get a simple (but good) light meter app for your smart phone, like this one: https://itunes.apple.com/app/pocket-light-meter/id381698089 (for Android and iPhone).
Anywhere anytime you can, just guesstimate the exposure and check quickly with your app. I'll often do this for f /5.6 (since this is a common aperture for most lenses) and ISO 100 (for Fomapan 100 or Ilford FP4+). If I use another ISO or aperture I just calculate the difference in stops from there and adjust the exposure.

BTW: This app is very good. I've checked it with a "real" handheld meter and got the same values.

(screen shot from the app)

"Have fun and catch that light beam!"
Bert from Holland

 

[StephenT]

I use Sunny 16 as a backup to an incident meter, or as the primary method when I go out with one of my medium or large format cameras and forget to bring a meter! I also admit to having an app on my iPhone!


I think it is a great idea to becoming adept with Sunny 16, but I think you would enjoy using a film with a high degree of latitude such as FP4+. When I bracket, I will bracket 2 stops each way and pretty much always get a usable negative.

I also recommend setting up a black and white darkroom - you will enjoy it, save some money, and learn a lot. Develop your film and scan it, then when time and resources permit, start printing.

Best wishes.

 

[Chan Tran]

I usually walk around with a 6x6 folder in my pocket, and no meter. Less to deal with, and I haven't seriously blown a shot in a very long time. It's just good to not have to rely on a meter. I have three hand held meters, a Sekonic L-398, Minolta Auto Meter IIIf, and a Sekonic one degree spot meter, I'm usually real close without them.

You see that Rick A can make very good judgment because he has 3 meters. I suggest you to get a good incident meter because most of the estimating based on the light falling on the subject. On sunny 16 one assume the sun has a certain brightness and then when it's covered by cloud it has a certain brightness. When the sun illuminate large area and then the reflection of those area in turn illuminate the area in the shades has a certain brightness. Bring the meter with you and practice and then you will get good.

 

[Rick A]

You see that Rick A can make very good judgment because he has 3 meters. I suggest you to get a good incident meter because most of the estimating based on the light falling on the subject. On sunny 16 one assume the sun has a certain brightness and then when it's covered by cloud it has a certain brightness. When the sun illuminate large area and then the reflection of those area in turn illuminate the area in the shades has a certain brightness. Bring the meter with you and practice and then you will get good.

Yes Chan, I do own three meters, but I honed my skill long before I owned any meters. I still prefer to shoot without the aid when I walk around aimlessly. I do employ them when out with my LF gear. I set up and set my shutter then check against the meter, I'm usually within half stop of the reading. For every day street shooting, it's best to learn to preset the camera and not have to take time to "frame, focus, fiddle with exposure settings" even to the point I use hyperfocal setting, and basically have a point and shoot camera. It doesn't matter if I'm shooting one of my OM's, my GW690II , or my Zeiss Nettar. If you take too long, you lose the moment.

 

[Alan Klein]

How do you know the exposure in magic hour when the light is changing rapidly? Estimating during the middle of the day is relatively easy. You can follow those settings Kodak use to give you on the yellow boxes film inserts. But 30 minutes before sunset, you're going through stops pretty fast. And if you shoot slide film like I do most of the time, there's little forgiveness as with BW negative film. I usually bracket my landscapes just in case.

 

[Rick A]

I always try to over expose, and give half to one stop more than I think I need. Better to have a slightly dense negative to print than a thin one.

 

[Sirius Glass]

The Tessina does not have a working light meter. Its cute clip on meter is missing the cover glass and meter indicator, and no one has the parts to fix it. Since the camera is so small, I do not bother carrying a light meter. I use Sunny 16. With the wide SBR latitude of Tri-X and HP5+ I do not have a problem with the loss of shadows nor high light blow out.

 

[Rook]

This is how I learned to "self-meter":
I bought a hand-held light meter, then spent some time walking around, taking readings under various light conditions, while closely observing the results. After a while, I attempted predicting the readings and comparing my guess to the meter's results. For several weeks, I carried a meter on me all the time, often without a camera. Eventually my predictions were just about always spot on when compared to the meter. I learned to "see" like the light meter, thereby rendering the meter unnecessary. Learning this way was neither difficult nor painful. In fact, it was mildly fun - a little game of "guess the exposure". Whoever says you can't learn self-metering this way has either never really tried it, or quit too soon.

 

[jerrybro]

This may be blasphemy, but I am learning using a digital camera. I bought a used D100 from KEH and use it with mf Nikkor lenses. With this I get instant feedback on my choice.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

There is a well-kept secet in photography:The exposure is always 1/60s@f/8;no meter requiredif that doesn't work, You had the wrong ISOfilm in your camera.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I don't understand why but if that is your goal then shoot a lot, keep lots of notes, and don't be disappointed with the failures. There could be more failures than successes.

THERE IS NO JOY IN SUCCESS WITHOUT THE RISK OF FAILURE

 

[Espasol]

When my first camera was a Canon Pellix with a busted light meter, I got pretty good at estimating exposures using nothing more than the guides on the film box. It was constant practice and constant mental calculations of f/stop and shutter speed combinations. Funny thing was in photo class in high school, my exposures were consistently better than the kids who had fully functional cameras. It sure bewildered them and me because I was doing everything by the seat of my pants. So it is doable. But that was all with natural light. I wouldn't dare guesstimate exposure with flash.

 

[Sirius Glass]

When my daughter took a photography class in high school, students had to have a 35mm camera that could be operated manually. They could not use a light meter and they were taught to use Sunny 16. She was living in my place in Los Angeles and I was working at Kodak in Rochester New York. She would call me up when there was an unusual lighting situation and describe the set up, I would talk her though how to do the calculations for the unusual parts of getting the right exposure. The next day she would call me from the school darkroom and tell me that the exposure was spot on.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

When my first camera was a Canon Pellix with a busted light meter, I got pretty good at estimating exposures using nothing more than the guides on the film box. It was constant practice and constant mental calculations of f/stop and shutter speed combinations. Funny thing was in photo class in high school, my exposures were consistently better than the kids who had fully functional cameras. It sure bewildered them and me because I was doing everything by the seat of my pants. So it is doable. But that was all with natural light. I wouldn't dare guesstimate exposure with flash.

me neither but GN/ distance works within reason