Learning how to "self meter"

Ces1um · Jul 25, 2015

Aside from the sunny 16 rule, I was wondering how people learn to accurately judge aperture/shutter combinations to produce a correct exposure SPECIFICALLY without the use of a light meter. I'd really like to learn this skill, and what I've done is used the sunny 16 and added or subtracted a stop or two depending if i'm over water/sand/snow or if I've got sun behind my subject or in front of them. I usually record what my settings were so I can go back and check the exposure. It seems simple enough but I'm still over/underexposing shots and blowing other shots altogether. I'm sure other people have mastered this skill- just wondering if there are any tips/tricks or books/websites/videos they could point me towards? Going to school to get a photography degree is out of the question given the fact I've got a family and a full time job. That being said, I could certainly sign up for a course somewhere, but given the fact that digital is so prevalent I doubt anybody is giving a course on this subject. Any pearls of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

RobC · Jul 25, 2015

why? is it some sort of kudos you think you'll get by not using a meter. I'd say if you're getting the sunny 16 and your judgement wrong then either you just need more practice and expeirience or you invest an incident meter which can be had for next to nothing. Even a phone app. Why waste shots because you won't use a meter. Or get a camera with a meter in it.

Rick A · Jul 25, 2015

Back in the 60's I learned by reading the shooting suggestions printed on the Kodak film box. Then I got one of these, had it for 40+ years. I no longer need it, but I won't get rid of it either.

Ces1um · Jul 25, 2015

RobC- no- it's not for kudos. It's to better myself. I want to learn it for the same reason I learned how to touch type, how to handwrite in calligraphy (that one didn't turn out so well), how to do mental math, or why I go to the gym 4-5 times weekly. It's a skill I simply want to learn to improve myself. I've got a camera with a light meter in it. I've got an app on my phone. I'd just like to learn how to do it without their aid.

Rick A- I wish film manufacturers still printed those instructions... that textbook however certainly looks interesting. I think I might search for something similar online. Thanks for the help.

Rick A · Jul 25, 2015

I usually walk around with a 6x6 folder in my pocket, and no meter. Less to deal with, and I haven't seriously blown a shot in a very long time. It's just good to not have to rely on a meter. I have three hand held meters, a Sekonic L-398, Minolta Auto Meter IIIf, and a Sekonic one degree spot meter, I'm usually real close without them.

BrianShaw · Jul 25, 2015

I don't understand why but if that is your goal then shoot a lot, keep lots of notes, and don't be disappointed with the failures. There could be more failures than successes.

pentaxuser · Jul 25, 2015

Ces1um said:
RobC- no- it's not for kudos. It's to better myself.

OK I understand this desire but to get better why not try to estimate the fstop/shutter speed combo and then check what it really is with a meter be it the cameras or a hand-held one

Anyone learning to estimate exposures/ speed of traffic or any other "condition" needs some form of feedback to check their estimates against in order to get better.

I use no aids at all and rely on gut instinct without feedback and I don't experience a few under/over exposure . No, I can waste whole rolls of films instead of a few frames

P.S. When I drive I estimate my speed but spurn the use of the speedometer to see if I am getting any better at the estimation. The judge didn't seem to appreciate my desire to learn this way when he confiscated my licence for speeding

pentaxuser

Arvee · Jul 25, 2015

This is the absolute best tool I have found next to a light meter for calculating exposure. Use it for a few months and exposure becomes ingrained and you won't ever need a meter again!

http://blackcatphotoproducts.com/

RobC · Jul 25, 2015

you could use one of these. Print it out on a piece of paper or card, assemble it and see if it matches your sunny sixteen estimations.

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/download.asp?n=1296&f=2011106152612113.pdf

BrianShaw · Jul 25, 2015

To tag on to Pentxusrr, I've estimated EV and confirmed with a meter when using a camera with EV interlock. That gives a semblance of confidence. As conditions change then reconfirm and proceed.

Bill Burk · Jul 25, 2015

Ces1um said:
Aside from the sunny 16 rule, I was wondering how people learn to accurately judge aperture/shutter combinations to produce a correct exposure SPECIFICALLY without the use of a light meter. I'd really like to learn this skill, and what I've done is used the sunny 16 and added or subtracted a stop or two depending if i'm over water/sand/snow or if I've got sun behind my subject or in front of them. I usually record what my settings were so I can go back and check the exposure. It seems simple enough but I'm still over/underexposing shots and blowing other shots altogether. I'm sure other people have mastered this skill- just wondering if there are any tips/tricks or books/websites/videos they could point me towards? Going to school to get a photography degree is out of the question given the fact I've got a family and a full time job. That being said, I could certainly sign up for a course somewhere, but given the fact that digital is so prevalent I doubt anybody is giving a course on this subject. Any pearls of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

I think that you might want to try your hand at Zone System testing. I suggest that because it opens your eyes to the connection between the subject, the negative and the print. Being aware of that relationship, you will then form a solid opinion of how you want your negative to turn out.

Another simple trick, that I use all the time, is to set the camera at the f/stop and shutter speed that I "think" is right, before setting up for the shot and metering. But I do use a meter.

Then I find out if I guessed right, or if I guessed wrong... did I guess over, or under? Generally if I erred on the side of overexposure, the shot would have been "fine".

Gerald C Koch · Jul 25, 2015

The calculators mentioned above are all based on the equation contained in the following article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_value

bdial · Jul 25, 2015

The way to learn it is practice.
Like Rick, I used the datasheets packed with the film, and I too still have my Kodak Master Photoguide.
It's nice to have some ability to judge, even if you're going to use a meter anyway. If it goes wonky though, it's nice to be able to tell that it's BS'ing you.

Just today, this showed up in the classifieds;
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Old-N-Feeble · Jul 25, 2015

Way way way back when I was young and shot a lot I could judge within a half f-stop just by looking around and judging by eye. I trained myself to do that over and over again. I doubt I can do that these days.

BrianShaw · Jul 25, 2015

RobC · Jul 25, 2015

Ces1um said:
RobC- no- it's not for kudos. It's to better myself. I want to learn it for the same reason I learned how to touch type, how to handwrite in calligraphy (that one didn't turn out so well), how to do mental math, or why I go to the gym 4-5 times weekly. It's a skill I simply want to learn to improve myself. I've got a camera with a light meter in it. I've got an app on my phone. I'd just like to learn how to do it without their aid.

Rick A- I wish film manufacturers still printed those instructions... that textbook however certainly looks interesting. I think I might search for something similar online. Thanks for the help.

The problem you have is that eye's exposure (it's aperture, your pupil) is opertaing totally automatically without you having any control over it. It is constantly trying to maintain the "correct" exposure just like a meter is trying to place the exposure in the middle of the curve. This means it is extremely difficult to assess lighting level accurately because you have to make subjective judgements based on external clues and NOT the actual amount of light. e.g. there are dark clouds overhead so it must be low light, but you ain't seeing how low the light is becasue your pupil has opened up to compensate. I doubt anyone gets it right all the time. Some will get it ball park most of the time but none get it perfect all the time. A meter gives you consistency if you use it properly because it actually measures the light and doesn't make guesses based on external conditions. And consistency is the name of the game if you want predictable results.

Fixcinater · Jul 25, 2015

Practice your skills by making an educated guess then checking with a meter, even when you aren't carrying a camera. You can get pretty darn good at if with enough repetition, if you vary the circumstances enough.

Ces1um · Jul 25, 2015

so rick- how did you learn?

Sirius Glass · Jul 25, 2015

I use light meters all the time. When a light meter is not working [dead battery] I use Sunny 16 with corrections for sand-snow-black cats in a coal bin. Sunny 16 is for emergencies only.

Rick A · Jul 25, 2015

I didn't have a meter, so there were many , MANY , mistakes. Practice, and many rolls of film later, I could judge a lighting situation and get it real close. I remember getting my first camera with built in meter, Olympus FTL, I was stunned at how close i really was. I'm not patting myself on the back, but a couple of years of trial and error, trying to follow the Kodak literature, payed off. I also read many books on photography(back then there weren't that many). It's not really about your eye reacting to the light, but your "trained" brain remembering lighting situations that you react to, and set up for.
Were I you, I would set up for the shot, set aperture and speed, then switch on the meter to see how close you are. Keep notes on everything you do, and refer back to them when you print to see what worked.

Ces1um · Jul 25, 2015

Thanks Rick- that seems like great advice. I found that kodak publication online but unfortunately they won't ship it to Canada. I really need to get a US post office box one of these days. Thanks for the help.

Ces1um · Jul 25, 2015

Thanks everyone for the help!

MattKing · Jul 25, 2015

Ces1um said:
Thanks Rick- that seems like great advice. I found that kodak publication online but unfortunately they won't ship it to Canada. I really need to get a US post office box one of these days. Thanks for the help.

Where are you in Canada? I might have an extra Kodak Master Photoguide. If so, you could have it for the cost of postage.

Ces1um · Jul 25, 2015

MattKing- I'm on the east coast- Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia (close to Halifax). If you do have one lying around, I'd love to give it a good home!

MattKing · Jul 25, 2015

Ces1um said:
MattKing- I'm on the east coast- Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia (close to Halifax). If you do have one lying around, I'd love to give it a good home!

I'll check. In the meantime, send me a pm here on APUG with your mailing address.

Learning how to "self meter"

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