Leaf Shutter Problem? Bellows leak? Photo flaws

[Svenedin]

Hello,

I posted a photo in the Technical Gallery asking if anyone could comment on what went wrong with my photograph but nobody has commented there so perhaps it has not been seen. The camera is a Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta IV. A folder with a Synchro-Compur shutter and a coated Tessar lens.

I have only had the camera a few weeks and now I have shot perhaps 10-12 rolls of film. Initially I thought the problem was some kind of vignetting or lens flare caused by a slightly loose lens hood but now I have noticed it without the lens hood. It only seems to occur in bright sunlight (I do not mean trying to shoot into the sun).

This effect occurs in about 1 or 2 photographs per roll (of 12). It is always in the same place, a the bottom right of the negative. I have had a look in the dark with a torch and I cannot see a light leak and I have also looked through the lens from the back on bulb and I cannot see anything obviously wrong. The shutter does not seem to stick in any way.

Could this be a sticky shutter blade that is opening properly but being slightly slow in closing? Or is it an pinhole in the bellows? I would be grateful for suggestions. If necessary I will send the camera away for some attention as I love using it and it is in wonderful condition generally. I do have a friend who can easily time a shutter using an oscilloscope and phototransistor gizmo but I am not sure this will help as I have not seen evidence of poor shutting timing in terms of over/under exposed photographs.

I attach one photo showing this flaw in the bottom right of the picture. If it helps I can post different pictures showing the same issue.

I was out shooting yesterday as well and in 3 rolls it occurred twice (2 were infrared, 1 normal B&W). It was fairly bright sun the whole time. If it is not a fault of the camera but a problem with me I would like to learn what I am doing wrong.

Best Wishes,

Stephen

 

[ic-racer]

Almost certainly a bellows leak. Re-check the top left area of the bellows. A sticking shutter blade would produce dark and blurry negatives, not a dark line like you have shown. If there is some way you can show the negative, this can help.

 

[Svenedin]

The picture is a scan of the negative. My scanner software has automatically produced a positive. I know so little about these things that I don't know how to get the negative image back. I have just been down in the cellar, which is pitch black, and with a small very bright LED torch inside the camera I have been unable to find a bellows leak. I gently moved the concertina folds in case the hole was hiding.

Here is another image taken on a different roll of film on a different day. The fault is the sharply defined triangular bright area on the road at the bottom right.

 

[onre]

Check carefully the mounting of bellows to the body. It is definitely not the shutter.

 

[Svenedin]

Thank you for your help. I think I have identified the light leak but it is not in the bellows. I attach 2 pictures. Sorry for the poor quality but the first picture was taken in very dim light. There is a recessed channel that the back engages with. There is felt in there but perhaps it has deteriorated. Light is somehow leaking from the front, under the top assembly.

Would the light leak identified be consistent with the faults in the photographs? Any idea how I fix this (replace the felt I suppose)? Perhaps a light seal is missing or has failed under the top assembly as it surely should not be able to get through regardless of the condition of the felt in that channel at the back.

 

[DWThomas]

Based on the original post it's not likely a shutter problem. The straight, well defined vertical line is from an edge of something opaque fairly close to the film, a hanging leaf shutter would make some sort of less well defined blurry stuff. Another hint with these sorts of things is to look outside the frame on the negatives and see if the lines/leaks extend into the film rebate. If they do, the light leak is likely hitting the film between the film spool and the film gate/frame mask (at either end).

Remember that the image is upside down on the film; placing the negative in position as it would have been when the exposure was made can provide a pointer to the problem. Seems as though it should be relatively fixable.

 

[paul ron]

Thats it.. use the bright light inside n you'll find the leaks.

good detective work.

extend the bellows n see it from the front using the bright light technique?

I dont have that camera to see exactly what the area is.. but Im sure you'll figure out how to close it up.

 

[Svenedin]

Here is a picture of an affected negative as requested. It's actually a terrible picture as it was towards the sun but it would support the idea of a leak from the front.

 

[Bill Burk]

I think that's a false lead because light would still have to find its way past the backing paper to make that streak.

But it's the kind of leak you should be looking for. Keep looking, maybe when you extend the bellows they separate a bit from the body (so although the bellows might not leak, they may lift away from the body when you open the camera.)

 

[Bill Burk]

But looking at the infrared shot, it sure does look like it's coming from that spot.

 

[Svenedin]

I've had another look at it in the dark and I have found another very tiny leak past some felt/foam. This is in the area of the take-up spool. I think this camera needs a pro to take it apart and renew the light seals all over the place. It is much too nice for me to be fiddling with and it deserves better than a bodge job. I could not show the light leak as is was too difficult to photograph in the dark. Thank you for encouraging me to be really persistent in looking for the leak(s) and for pointing me in the right direction. I think this second leak is the culprit. Oh and here is the camera for anyone interested.

 

[DWThomas]

Since the leakage cuts off at the edge of the exposure, that should indicate the leak is while the film is positioned for exposure, within the space enclosed by the bellows. But the position would seem to be near the upper left as opposed to where your arrow points in that one shot of the camera back. One might be tempted to run a test roll with and without some black paper folded and laid along the upper left "corner" of the bellows to try and block light hitting that part to see if the problem goes away.

My (dubious) theory is there is a pinhole leak in the upper left part of the bellows one or two folds forward from the back/film end of the bellows that is partially shaded from the film by a bellows fold.

 

[Svenedin]

Here is a picture of the light leaking past the foam in the top of where the take up spool is.

 

[Bill Burk]

That's it!

That leak would lead directly to a triangular area of film with a straight edge that isn't exactly lined up with the main frame.

 

[Svenedin]

Hurray! What a nice lot you all are . I think a bit of black tape will have to suffice until this can go to camera hospital for a thorough check over. I am off work after an operation and short trips to take a few pictures are really helping my recovery. I was upset to think the camera would be out of action.

 

[peter k.]

Check out John Goodman... he has light seals for many different camera's with detailed instructions, and not hard to do. Doen it on several of my 35mm .. go for it..
Here's his e-mail JGood21967@aol.com

 

[DWThomas]

Here is a picture of the light leaking past the foam in the top of where the take up spool is.

I hope that's it -- though I'm surprised it didn't seem to hit outside the frame area. Maybe the angle needed is blocked by something on the other side of the hole. Relative to the next frame to come up, the light from that would be hitting the right place, and the hard edge would be where the film heads over the roller. That much of it makes sense.

(It's all a plot to keep our minds active! )

 

[Svenedin]

Well what I could do is load a film and advance to the first frame then shine a very bright light at the camera with the bellows open (there is no light leak by the take-up spool with the front of the camera shut). Leave the camera for a while and then, in a changing bag, chop off the first part of the film. Develop that section of film and see what happens. If I also took a picture of a blank wall it would identify the first frame and rule out a bellows leak. I can start the film in such a way that I know there will be some actual film on the take up spool (by advancing too far in the dark before closing the back). I'm not sure it's worth it as I am fairly convinced the problem has been found but it would prove it.

Edit: on second thoughts I am going to test this. It will ruin a cheap film but I can use the same film to test any fix I do

 

[paul ron]

with the back open... seal your eye/face against the back. have the bellows extended. take out in the sunshine and as you move round n round, observe any light coming in....

youd be surprised sometimes, just when you think youve got it, something else pops up.

 

[R.Gould]

In a dark room put the open camera, with the bellows extended, on a torch, have a good look around the bellows, you should be able to see even the smallest light leak from the bellows, I do this with every folder I buy, so far I have been fine with all but one, Another way that can work fine is to fire a small flashgun into the bellows a time or two, you will easily see any light leaks
Richard

 

[Svenedin]

In a dark room put the open camera, with the bellows extended, on a torch, have a good look around the bellows, you should be able to see even the smallest light leak from the bellows, I do this with every folder I buy, so far I have been fine with all but one, Another way that can work fine is to fire a small flashgun into the bellows a time or two, you will easily see any light leaks
Richard

Yes I've been doing that in my cellar which is pitch black. I cannot see any leak in the bellows but I did detect the other leaks.

So I loaded a film and left the camera with a bright desk lamp shining on it for an hour. I then raised the camera up to the light and directed the light from every angle I could, all around the bellows. I then opened the camera in a changing bag and cut off the first length of film from the take up spool to beyond the film gate near the delivery spool. I have developed that film and there is absolutely nothing on it. No exposure on the film (correctly developed, frame numbers are there).

Now I have reloaded that film, again in the changing bag, and tomorrow I will take the camera outside and expose it to bright sun (if we have any). I will open and close the bellows to simulate taking photographs and take one frame of something plain to confirm the location of the film gate. Then I will develop the next portion of film and see what is there (or not).

 

[Svenedin]

I repeated the experiment. This time shining a bright LED torch at all parts of the bellows and at the front of the camera. Then I took one shot of a painted wall.

The photo (sorry terrible photo) is of wet film on a piece of paper in my hand. A line can be seen that would correspond to the leak near the take-up spool. There is also a fault in the photo of the blank wall. A flaw like a bite out of the edge can be seen. It is so near the edge that it doesn't matter because it would not be printed but I have noticed it in all my negatives. Is this some dirt in the lens? There is my reflection in the photo as well, I can't scan wet film so it had to be a bad photo.

 

[MattKing]

There is also a fault in the photo of the blank wall. A flaw like a bite out of the edge can be seen. It is so near the edge that it doesn't matter because it would not be printed but I have noticed it in all my negatives. Is this some dirt in the lens? T

Dirt on the lens just results in a loss of sharpness.

Your "bite out of the edge" is due to something near the film gate itself.

I think it may be due to that ridge/seam I see in the folded bellows. There seems to be bits of loose bellows material there that might intrude into the path of light. See the photo in post #5 that shows the entire film gate area.

 

[Svenedin]

Thanks Matt, perhaps this film pressure plate that is not attached to the the spring on one side..........how could I have not seen that . D'oh.

So tomorrow I will seal that tiny light leak near the take-up spool. I have some self adhesive felt that is designed to stop furniture scratching the floor. It will only need the tiniest piece. I can also reattach the film pressure plate but I may as well take it off completely and give the insides a bit of a clean first.

It looks like problems solved, fingers crossed, thanks to all the help from the patient people here. Many thanks.

 

[John Koehrer]

Just another two cents here. If there was a long(ish) time between pictures having the camera in the sun
is a lot more light than any light you're going to have lying around the house soooo. If you
haven't found the solution yet you may want to set the camera in the sunlight for a while, then process the film.