Large grain structure

[RoBBo]

I've been trying to reproduce a specific grain structure and look for a while now with no success.
Attempts have led me to other experiments pushing film to an EI of 50,000, but still, the grain wasn't what I was looking for.
And I'm pretty sure that the only way to get the overall look I'm going for is to do a slight pull, so I can't imagine getting grain like this pulling film.

I'm looking for suggestions to try to reproduce this look and grain in a 17x13 or so print.
I'm willing to try any chemicals and techniques that are still readily available

Dead Link Removed
Sorry for the low quality, it's behind glass and I had to have a friend take the shot.

 

[dmax]

Maximum grain effects

Here's a quick outline on producing maximum grain:

1. Use the fastest film you can lay your hands on.
2. Extend development, or use a very high energy developer like Kodak D-19
3. Make a proof sheet on fiber paper, the thinnest you can find
4. Lay the dry proof sheet on a light table
5. Rephotograph with a macro lens or equivalent optical setup using fast film
6. Extend development (see No. 2)
7. Print "normally".

Hope this helps.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Tri-X, 35mm, in Dektol is a classic grainy combo. Hunt around the net for examples and exposure and development recommendations. It's not something I've done recently.

You can also try significantly varying the temperature between the developer and an acid stop bath to cause reticulation of the emulsion surface. Maybe use a developer and fixer at normal temperature, but heat the stop to 100 degrees F. for a dramatic effect.

 

[Markok765]

Tri-x @ 3200, Rodinal 1:50 40Min Agitation every 5 min or so.
Nice, tight, sharp grain, and a wonderful newspaper reportage look.
-Marko

 

[fhovie]

TMZ has the biggest grain I have seen. Develop it in Rodinal or PMK or something oldschool that doesn't have sulfites = you willlll get grain - I promise

 

[3Dfan]

A Minox ,110, or severe crop from 35mm taken with a wide angle lens perhaps?

 

[Neal]

Dear RoBBo,

Based on the tones in the photo, I think you are on the right track pushing your film. 3Dfan's suggestion of an agressive crop from a small format also appears to be in the right direction. When you consider that the grain is quite soft, avoid diluting your developer and/or use a "fine grain" developer.

Neal Wydra

 

[MMfoto]

I would strongly suggest you try Fortepan 400 in Rodinal. I would not suggest Tmz P3200, because it is not that grainy, it doesn't have a "classic" grain structure nor tonality, and most importantly you will have to push it to get grain unless you develop in Rodinal which can produce a VERY sharp/harsh look with this film and judging by your sample photo I don't know if that is what you're looking for.

You said you think you may need a slight pull to get what you're looking for. I assume you want low contrast. You can get very large attractive grain with Fortepan 400 and Rodinal without pushing. I have also made prints that "looks like it's printed in sand" with Fortepan 400 and Pyrocat HD, but was with a thin neg and a grade V filter, a thicker neg would've had more grain masking stain and required a lower filter therefore producing less pronounced grain in the print.

Otherwise, I think mentioned above, using the center section of a negative, or photographing a fine grained print with a grainy film/center section.

 

[wirehead]

Oh yeah, when I do Fortepan in Rodinal 1+100, I get heavy grain even in 6x7 format.

 

[gainer]

I think overexposure will produce more graininess than pushing, at least with some films. 35 mm HP5+ recently gave me more grain than usual when I overexposed it and developed to normal contrast. A low contrast, thin negative printed on high contrast paper or with a high contrast filter on VC paper, as mentioned above by MMFOTO, may do the trick. Also, consider developing at a high temperature for a shorter time. Successive copying is another ploy. Contact print a negative onto negative material and copy that again onto negative material to get a third generation negative from which to make prints. At least you will have the original negative to experiment with.

 

[George Collier]

I agree with Gainer re more exposure will give more grain. The more silver in the negative-the more grain is my experience. Tri-x or HP5 at 100-200 in Rodinal (agitating every 30 - 45 seconds), degree of development targeted toward contrast rather than grain, although more development should yield more grain.
See Ralph Gibson's work, heavy exposure and development, I believe I have read - toward this end).
The print you show as the example is also quite contrasty - highlights appear gone. Higher contrast paper should help articulate the grain, and increase contrast.
You can take a 36exp roll, tripod, 36 exposures of the same subject. Do sets of three different speeds (like 50, 100, 200), in sequence over and over again to get 12 of these sets of three. Cut the film into three sections and load each onto a reel. Start with the first reel, then add the other two at intervals of the development cycle, then fix and finish all of them. Each reel will have at least one good set of the three exposures, giving you a matix of 9 combinations. It'll at least be a start with one roll of film and one darkroom session. (Then comes the fun afternoon printing them all).
Don Cardwell may weigh in on this - he's a Rodinal master.

 

[25asa]

Try Ilford Delta 3200 in Rodinal, R09 or Diafine with frequent or continuous agitation.