large format camera sources?

[phritz phantom]

hi,
i finally have the chance to import a large format camera from the u.s. quite cheap and comfortably. the problem here in europe is that every used large format camera is either a linhof (not a possibility for me, since i'm on a budget) or antique. so, the only way out is to get one from overseas.

i'm looking for an old presscamera. like a graflex, horseman, mpp or something similar. with international back and lens. my budget is about $300-400 (maybe 500).
the only problem is, that the source has to be very reliable. the camera will be shipped to a friend who is in america right now and will come back to europe over the holidays, and hopefully bring me a camera. so i won't be able to inspect and test it before it's here, so exchanging/ returning is not really an option.

are there any camera stores that will sell me a useable camera in that price range? or am i doomed to use ebay?
i see a lot of auctions by a ebay user called "phenidon". he seems to sell quite a lot of lf-cameras. does he have a reputation (besides the ebay comments) or did someone from here know or did business with him??

thanks for the help.
martin

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I'd try several vendors-

Midwest Photo (www.mpex.com)
Quality Camera (www.qualitycamera.com)
B&H Photo (www.bhphotovideo.com)
The View Camera Store (www.viewcamerastore.com)

I'd also keep a watch on the forums here and over at LFInfo (www.largeformatphotography.info) for the classifieds and see if you see one listed.

 

[jovo]

To add to Scott's list there's:

http://www.badgergraphic.com/index.html

www.KEH.com

 

[phritz phantom]

thanks.
no luck so far.
but i just (re-)discovered two stores:
lens and repro and
igor's camera exchange

both of them have some good offers. i might buy from them, if nothing especially great crosses my way on ebay.

 

[John Kasaian]

For a used Speed or Crown with a graflock back I don't think Lens and Repro will be within your budget. You might consider something like a Bush Pressman, but really do you want to do handheld 4x5? Or do you want movements? Do you have to have a Graflock back? The reason I ask is that if you want a graflock back presumeably to used roll film backs, the only advantage to using a view camera would be the movements. If such is the case, press cameras offer little in the way of movements (there are exceptions like the Technika of course) Handheld photography just dosen't make using swings and tilts and shifts much of an option. You may find a good medium format easier to work with. If OTOH you can make due with a spring back and tripod the Calumet 400 series monorail or Graphic View cameras can be had for less than $200 in many cases (I just picked up a GVII for $125) But if your interests are handheld then a Graphic is the way to go...unless what you really want is a Technika Handholdable with lots of movements) you might consider an MPP Technical camera which I understand to be a British "knock-off" of the venerable technika. I also think there is a websit for MPP users somewhere. Graphic enthsiasts have www.graflex.org which you may have already discovered---a great resource for users of those cameras.

 

[mgb74]

I have no connection to this seller, but I'm always more comfortable buying from a fellow APUGer:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Though this one does not have the Graflock back.

 

[walter23]

If you can stretch your budget just another hundred dollars you can get a tachihara or shen hao from badger graphic. I love my shen hao - tons of movements, reasonably small and light, decent extension (320mm - could be a touch longer like on the linhof technika cameras, but not in this price range!).

The Shen Hao takes removable bellows (so you can add a bag bellows for wide angle later) and has a graflok back.

i'm looking for an old presscamera. like a graflex, horseman, mpp or something similar. with international back and lens. my budget is about $300-400 (maybe 500).
the only problem is, that the source has to be very reliable. the camera will be shipped to a friend who is in america right now and will come back to europe over the holidays, and hopefully bring me a camera. so i won't be able to inspect and test it before it's here, so exchanging/ returning is not really an option.

are there any camera stores that will sell me a useable camera in that price range? or am i doomed to use ebay?
i see a lot of auctions by a ebay user called "phenidon". he seems to sell quite a lot of lf-cameras. does he have a reputation (besides the ebay comments) or did someone from here know or did business with him??

thanks for the help.
martin

 

[phritz phantom]

i'd love to get a tachihara, shen hao or maybe a toyo, but unfortunately my budget is already stretched. and if i buy one of them it's usually the body only. this means i have to get a lens, holders... and that could easily double my original budget.

i'm definitely in for the movements and the individual development of the negatives. the handheld usability isn't very important for me. i already have a good mf-setup and am used to using a tripod.

i already found a few busch cameras for sale and i'm thinking about getting one. the only thing that putting me off is that they don't have an international back. i don't like the thought not to be able to use standard film holders or adapters for 6x 7/9/12.
mpp would be fine too, but those a pretty hard to find.

the perfect one for me would be a "super graphic". but since my budget will most certainly not allow it, i will most likely get a "crown grapic" from lens and repro for $450. the dollar/euro exchange rate is on my side!

and p.s.
walter, i think i like your taste in music.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

At that point, why not get a Graphic View instead of a speed/crown graphic?

They're silly cheap, have a lot more movements, and plenty of bellows extension.

 

[phritz phantom]

i'm considering it. but i'd prefer a more portable solution than a monorail camera.
also i don't have any experience at all with monorail cameras, i don't really know what to expect.
i just looked around a bit... i'll give this some more thought.

 

[PHOTOTONE]

If you are going to shoot outside, or on trips or at some distance from your car or transportation, a fold-up camera like the Super Graphic is a good choice, although you are limited on bellows length, prohibiting you from using some lenses. I use a Super Graphic myself for 4x5 in the field. You can completely fold up the camera with its normal 135mm lens and it becomes a brick..can be used as a weapon. It has a revolving back, and a drop front, too.

 

[John Kasaian]

Monorails like the Calumet 400 series and Graphic Views are quite portable, nothing like a self casing wooden camera but still do-able for short hikes if you carry it on the tripod over the shoulder. I particularly like the Graphic View because it accepts the wooden graphic "c" boards---easier to mount a lens on IMHO. Since you're doing this long distance, I'd suggest emailing Jim at Midwest, tell him what it is you're after and see if he can put together a kit---camera, lens and some holders---within your budget. Other than that, you might contact Jim Galli who hangs out here---he always seems to have a bunch of really cool stuff you might be able to talk him into parting with before it goes on ebay

 

[Curt]

Monorails like the Calumet 400 series and Graphic Views are quite portable, nothing like a self casing wooden camera but still do-able for short hikes if you carry it on the tripod over the shoulder. I particularly like the Graphic View because it accepts the wooden graphic "c" boards---easier to mount a lens on IMHO. Since you're doing this long distance, I'd suggest emailing Jim at Midwest, tell him what it is you're after and see if he can put together a kit---camera, lens and some holders---within your budget. Other than that, you might contact Jim Galli who hangs out here---he always seems to have a bunch of really cool stuff you might be able to talk him into parting with before it goes on ebay

This makes so much more sense than the eBay way, he will give you some ideas and make up some kit's with a firm price and you won't have to be betting on something from a person who may be gone one second after the transaction.

Busch cameras are fantastic, I have a Busch C which is a 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 but the D are great also. I also have the Calumet monorails, 400 model and they are the best for the money. Heavy, solid, a real worker, can put a long lens on, have a revolving back, some come with lenses for under $200.00. No wood to leak or warp.

I can highly recommend the Shen Hao 4x5 field camera from Badger. They are the best for a new camera that can go anywhere. Good bellows length, Wista lens boards, International back, clean well made, you wouldn't be sorry. I bought one because I needed a quick travel camera in 4x5.

Good luck,
Curt

 

[Nick Zentena]

If you aren't going to do the press bit get a woodie. Yup a CC401 can be hiked but a woodie folds up. Something like an Ansco 5x7 with a 4x5 back or the B&Js won't be any lighter then a CC401 but the folded up size should be easier in a back pack.

Woodies are fairly cheap. Often less then the press cameras.

Press cameras are what they are. Not a great deal of movements. Not a great bellows range. Worse because over the years everybody has been told they are cheap entries into LF then are no longer cheap.

If you want a cheap press type camera get a B&J. You won't have the graflok back but you'll have everything else plus more movements plus cheaper.

 

[John Kasaian]

Agfa/Anscos are nice cameras with lots of movements and they'll accept 5x7 backs too. So will B&Js. I wouldn't want to carry either for more than a short hike though. While monorails have the rail to contend with, flat bed woodies just don't fold up all that flat compared to self casing designs like the Tachihara or Shen, and are heavier to boot. If you're after one the trick is to find one that isn't worn out---once again I'd trust Jim at Midwest or Jim Galli.
Have you looked at the Argentium cameras?

 

[matti]

Keh.com has a ZONE VI for $569
/matti

 

[John Kasaian]

A cautionary issue if you're after an old press camera---condition is everything. Many have been worn out from decades of duty with the press. If the bellows are shot it will cost you $$$.

 

[karavelov]

Some Sinars F1 have gone last week on ebay for less than $300. They are quite portable. I am considering one for the field because my current press camera that I use in the field is quite limited (movements, extensions etc.), my studio camera is quite heavy (5x7 master-kardan) and the wooden cameras I find them quite expensive - you get more value for the money with a Sinar f.

 

[Richard Kelham]

Quite a few MPP Technicals come up on UK eBay – mostly mark VII though occasional mark VIII which is better but more expensive. Though these cameras are up to 40 years old they are solidly built and *almost* indestructible!

Users' website at http://www.mppusers.freeuk.com/



Richard

 

[phritz phantom]

Quite a few MPP Technicals come up on UK eBay – mostly mark VII though occasional mark VIII which is better but more expensive. Though these cameras are up to 40 years old they are solidly built and *almost* indestructible!

Users' website at http://www.mppusers.freeuk.com/



Richard

yes, i'd love to have an mpp. i took a peek on ebay uk quite a few times.
but the good ones are a bit more expensive (about 400 euro, not $) and ordering from the uk is as expensive as from overseas (money transfer fees and shipping).

 

[freygr]

Try: http://www.bluemooncamera.com/

They have a used selection of press cameras and the last time I dropped by a couple 8 by 10's. The owner was nice and the had just refinished an old studio camera with a home made lens.

Gordon