Landscapes with medium format

[abruzzi]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-weapon-1578808.html

 

[M Carter]

Back to cameras... the idea that the RB (or RZ) is strictly a studio camera or can only be used outdoors with assistants... I find it silly.

I took an RB, 2 backs and 2 lenses across 2 continents and 4 countries in a backpack. Not the lightest pack ever, but manageable. (And I know, some of this crowd are facing arthritis, knee replacements and the like... knocking on wood here).

I shoot some square stuff (an Isolette III came along on that last trip), but I'm glad to have the extra bulk of the RB to get a slightly bigger neg that can be cropped square. Cropping 6x6 - heck, I could have just taken a 645 with me.

We all have different needs and opinions, but discounting the RB due to its size? Jeez, I shot entire catalogs on the thing handheld with the L-grip and the 180. These days I seem to shoot tons of corporate video with a gimbal - that wears my arms out way more then the RB ever did!

Handheld, 180, all day long:

 

[DREW WILEY]

I doubt a single notable painter did what he did back in that era because of some kind of CIA propaganda interest. Abstract art began long before the Cold War. Rothko was forced to paint by the NYC mob; that's a different story. Winston Churchill was a pretty good third-generation impressionist painter; doubt he did it to defeat the Nazis. ... Back to cameras, yeah, RZ's are a bit big and heavy for MF's. But I've backpacked with view cameras for 40 years now, so whatever. Cropping from square is not suitable for me. 6x7 is barely large enough; 645 just too small.

 

[abruzzi]

I think your misinterpreting the article. Pollack wasn’t a CIA asset doing work the CIA wanted, but rather that the CIA funded and supported (several levels removed) abstract art programs to function as a foil to soviet art.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Doesn't make sense to me either way. Just prior to that Abstract Expressionist era, the dominant form of State sponsored American art was Social Realism, stylistically the same thing. It began with Diego Rivera, then my aunt became the most prolific fresco muralist of them all under the Roosevelt administration, then numerous others like Grant Wood etc. All the same style (a very predictable style which I never liked; my aunt's personal work was a lot more interesting than the public stuff). Then it came to a crashing halt when Peggy Guggenheim sponsored the Abstract Expressionists like Pollock. But it's having a bit of a revival in terms of historical interest and mural technique. I take a lot of those magazine stories with a grain of salt. Tweaking the beak of the Commies by piping in jazz or rock n roll Western music was routine, so brandishing liberated art was logical too, if less easy; but none of that had much to do with cutting-edge artists themselves, who were generally despised by people in power here too. I'm old enough to remember the McCarthy witch hunts.

 

[eli griggs]

The funding of Abstract Arts and Artists was widely beneficial to Artists outside the Soviet Sphere, (and eventually inside the Iron Curtain) especially in light of the crack down on those Eastern European Client states in which such art was considered less than worthy of the term, "art".

This includes Photography.

By promoting such works in the West, the CIA was touting the ideals of "Free Speech, Expression, Tolerance of Controversial Topics, such as anti-State Sentiment and the Juxtapositioning of Hateful Orthodox Dogma and it's Unrestrained, Untouchable Leadership, against the Will of The People,The Individual, or by Comparison to the Left's Serfdom of the non-Elite Masses, to the Freedoms the West was so busily touting abroad,

The West was home to the Purity of Freedom of Thought, where Every Man and Woman could pursue the Loftier Meanings of Every Aspect of what it meant to be Free of the Narrow-Minded, Violent and Blacken Soul, Beet & Onion Eating, Unwashed, Uncouth Troglodytes of The Party Leadership, and other Tyrannical Systems that Raised Weapons and Silenced Every unscripted Thought which was no first Vetted by 'The Bosses'.

Promotion of the Abstract also cemented New York City as the 'Art Capital of The World', which had much of it's beginnings of those who fled both the Murderous Efforts to Cleanse First 'The Reich' of Deviant Persons and of their officially Denounced Art, with the Soviet Union and it's Satellite States doing much the same, both pre, during and post WWII.

Europa's Artists flocked to America, and the Rise of Abstraction was a Joyful sign to many, that here, they could find The Limits to their Mind's Eye, in Safety.

The Funding of Abstraction May Well Be, the Best Return, for it's dollar that the C.I.A., Ever Spent.

IMO.

As to the Camera topic at hand, the 6x6cm format, offers a better traveling Landscape camera, than the heavier medium format SLRs, and limited Rangefinders do, as it can no only be edited down to whatever ratio of dimension, but with today's software, unlimited panoramas on stitched digitally printed negatives or positives, for final printing, in the Analog Darkroom.

Better yet, the same approach works just as well in the vertical formats and even several columns of frames can be put together for contact prints off digital negatives, with out having to compose with a rectangular format camera.

Correct me if I am wrong, but this sort of work, in Colour and B&W, can also be done by most, if no all, professional photo labs, no.

And, while the 5.0cm Hasselblad lens are great at many landscapes, the square format of 6x6cm, with the longer lenses, just seems to me, a more 'natural' look in the photography of distant features, like snow filled mountain tops, in both sun and moonlight and close-by' found objects' and isolating perspectives, such as a log on a beach, the 'windows, branches and roots of a tree or a too far to reach abstract in a stone on an ancient wall.

Once you have a Hasselblad and lenses, you can pretty much adapt their use to most topics, except perhaps fast moving sports that require the camera to track the action.

6x6cm, 4x4cm, and those rectangular format backs and smaller roll films such as 35mm or perhaps 16mm 'adapted to' existing backs, are all options in the finest medium format SLR cameras ever built.

PS, You can also get quality adapters for other cameras to use your Hasselblad lenses on, like the 135mm Nikon F, F2, F3, etc and, shhhh... you can even use digital backs to, if you drink too much and just swing that way.

Again, IMO.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

The funding of Abstract Arts and Artists was widely beneficial to Artists outside the Soviet Sphere, (and eventually inside the Iron Curtain) especially in light of the crack down on those Eastern European Client states in which such art was considered less than worthy of the term, "art".

You really don't know much about that "iron curtain" do you? By reading yours, it's like a prominent communist talking just through a seemingly opposite mouth. It's more like an incoherent blabber.

While there was a lot of restrictions on a lot of things, and you had to endure basic life supplies shortages regularly (although to a different extent depending on each country), art and music was one that allowed that "freedom" you speak of. In fact, do yourself a favor and check out just Soviet era artists, it would do you a lot of good. You may see Lenin in some of it, a lot of propagandist agenda all over, yet art is art and abstract was part of it. And dare I say ... top world class art. Movie posters created at the time were in a class of its own. And that is just Soviet Union. Jazz (in Poland especially) was a free as you had it, and top class music too.

Whether the West didn't get to see any it was part of communists' restrictions, or the West's self-infatuation I cannot tell. But it nicks my bad buttons when I see people putting out hear say as if it were godsend truth.

Communists allowed art to go nearly unrestricted because they new it was one thing that would keep them in charge for longer. Sure, they would censor it, would not allow clear attempts for artistic political coup (something you should be familiar with BTW), but being an artist was sort of like being a taxi driver, both lived in their own little world, just the latter typically was far better off financially.

I do not know whether CIA sponsored abstract art and what their inclination to do so was. It certainly had nothing to do with art restrictions behind that "iron curtain".

 

[eli griggs]

Yes, I've seen a good bit of art from Soviet era artists and there is a great deal of good art there, but there was a limit to artist's license, at least for the prewar and post war Stalin Soviet.

While some artists were allowed to rise, many more risked denouncement in the era of Stalin.

There is an article on "Soviet Nonconformist Art" which points out that the Gulags and Murder were no strangers to artists which could/would no follow Stalinist's mandated criteria, right up to the death of Stalin and his quick, official denouncement in the post war 1950's, by Khrushchev, which is the period the CIA's program for Abstract Art, began.

There is plenty of this history, to be found, it's well documented, so perhaps you should be less quick yourself to denounce others who's opinions you do no like, and do a bit of fact finding yourself.

I stand by my first post on this topic.

IMO.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Yes, I've seen a good bit of art from Soviet era artists and there is a great deal of good art there, but there was a limit to artist's license, at least for the prewar and post war Stalin Soviet.

While some artists were allowed to rise, many more risked denouncement in the era of Stalin.

There is an article on "Soviet Nonconformist Art" which points out that the Gulags and Murder were no strangers to artists which could/would no follow Stalinist's mandated criteria, right up to the death of Stalin and his quick, official denouncement in the post war 1950's, by Khrushchev, which is the period the CIA's program for Abstract Art, began.

There is plenty of this history, to be found, it's well documented, so perhaps you should be less quick yourself to denounce others who's opinions you do no like, and do a bit of fact finding yourself.

I stand by my first post on this topic.

IMO.

Iron curtain is NOT Stalin Soviet union, nor is it North Korea. And please do not lecture me on communism and what it, you have no idea. If anyone is quick it is one who equalizes the whole part of Europe, referred as iron curtain, into a single state of mind. I lived in Poland well into my adult life before leaving for a few decades and and of the 80's, I know what it was like first hand and I do know the level of artistic expression that was allowed. Also, Soviet era art was no stranger to excellence. So if CIA indeed pummeled money into abstract art in some idiotic support of "freedom" movement in iron curtain countries, they failed at the idea to begin with. Or call it another case of government waste.

 

[Jeremy Mudd]

Back to cameras... the idea that the RB (or RZ) is strictly a studio camera or can only be used outdoors with assistants... I find it silly.

I took an RB, 2 backs and 2 lenses across 2 continents and 4 countries in a backpack. Not the lightest pack ever, but manageable. (And I know, some of this crowd are facing arthritis, knee replacements and the like... knocking on wood here).

I shoot some square stuff (an Isolette III came along on that last trip), but I'm glad to have the extra bulk of the RB to get a slightly bigger neg that can be cropped square. Cropping 6x6 - heck, I could have just taken a 645 with me.

We all have different needs and opinions, but discounting the RB due to its size? Jeez, I shot entire catalogs on the thing handheld with the L-grip and the 180. These days I seem to shoot tons of corporate video with a gimbal - that wears my arms out way more then the RB ever did!

I have to agree. While the RB is “bulky”, the versatility of it makes it worth it, to me, to carry for the majority of my landscape shooting. This past month I hit several waterfalls in the Ohio and Indiana area, carrying just my RB67 ProSD, tripod, 4 lenses, and 3 backs. Some locations were close to the car, while some where a bit of a hike. Pretty much for all of them I was wading in water or crawling over slick rocks to get the shot I wanted. I also own a Fuji GX617, but generally if hiking or crawling over slippery rocks is going to be involved, I will leave it at home. With the crazy spike in prices for the GX617 in the past year, I am super paranoid about damage due to falling or water submersion - while another RB67 ProSD body is still relatively cheap (right now) to purchase. Although I do have two spare bodies just in case. A few examples of shots from the past month, all on my RB with either 120 or 35mm film (Ektar, ACROS, SVEMA MZ-3, Ortho Plus).

 

[mark]

I have to agree. While the RB is “bulky”, the versatility of it makes it worth it, to me, to carry for the majority of my landscape shooting. This past month I hit several waterfalls in the Ohio and Indiana area, carrying just my RB67 ProSD, tripod, 4 lenses, and 3 backs. Some locations were close to the car, while some where a bit of a hike. Pretty much for all of them I was wading in water or crawling over slick rocks to get the shot I wanted. I also own a Fuji GX617, but generally if hiking or crawling over slippery rocks is going to be involved, I will leave it at home. With the crazy spike in prices for the GX617 in the past year, I am super paranoid about damage due to falling or water submersion - while another RB67 ProSD body is still relatively cheap (right now) to purchase. Although I do have two spare bodies just in case. A few examples of shots from the past month, all on my RB with either 120 or 35mm film (Ektar, ACROS, SVEMA MZ-3, Ortho Plus).


View attachment 239850

That first image is stunning.

 

[Jeremy Mudd]

That first image is stunning.

Thanks!

That was shot on my RB67 with a 250mm lens and circular polarizer, on Ektar film.

 

[Sirius Glass]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-weapon-1578808.html

Nice fluff piece with no back up. Did you notice it never quotes a source and sites any back up material? References? None. This is all based on what the author had for breakfast. The he realized if he did not have something for the tabloid he would not get a pay check. Then after stuffing some more food in his mouth, just started writing whatever came to mind, as if he had ever had an original idea in his life.

 

[macfred]

Nice fluff piece with no back up. Did you notice it never quotes a source and sites any back up material? References? None. This is all based on what the author had for breakfast. The he realized if he did not have something for the tabloid he would not get a pay check. Then after stuffing some more food in his mouth, just started writing whatever came to mind, as if he had ever had an original idea in his life.

some more fluff pieces with no back up ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_and_the_Cultural_Cold_War

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2005/10/17/unpopular-front

https://hyperallergic.com/294142/a-visit-to-the-the-cias-secret-abstract-art-collection/

https://books.google.de/books?id=hF...q=warhol foundation was a cia partner&f=false

https://books.google.de/books?id=rd...QAQ#v=onepage&q=warhol foundation cia&f=false

 

[narsuitus]

Back to cameras... the idea that the RB (or RZ) is strictly a studio camera or can only be used outdoors with assistants... I find it silly.

I took an RB, 2 backs and 2 lenses across 2 continents and 4 countries in a backpack. Not the lightest pack ever, but manageable. (And I know, some of this crowd are facing arthritis, knee replacements and the like... knocking on wood here).

I also reject the idea that the RB is strictly a studio camera.

My RB67 SLR with three lenses and three extra film backs is not light; but it is lighter and less bulky than my 4x5 film camera with three lenses and a dozen sheet film holders.



Mamiya RB67 Kit by Narsuitus, on Flickr

 

[eli griggs]

Deny the History of what was happening in the Stalin U.S.S.R. and Eastern Block, all you want, but do no expect others to do the same.

We shall have to simply disagree and drop this topic so others can stay focused on this Forum's purpose.

IMO.

 

[rayonline_nz]

Those of you who mentioned you carried a backpack of a few lenses and 2 backs. What sort of photo outing was that? At home or in my country with a road trip I could manage it but it's not something I could do as easily overseas relying on public transportation like Singapore or Tokyo.... A TLR or some other 6x6 or a rangefinder 6x7 be easier.

 

[Ariston]

Iron curtain is NOT Stalin Soviet union, nor is it North Korea. And please do not lecture me on communism and what it, you have no idea. If anyone is quick it is one who equalizes the whole part of Europe, referred as iron curtain, into a single state of mind. I lived in Poland well into my adult life before leaving for a few decades and and of the 80's, I know what it was like first hand and I do know the level of artistic expression that was allowed. Also, Soviet era art was no stranger to excellence. So if CIA indeed pummeled money into abstract art in some idiotic support of "freedom" movement in iron curtain countries, they failed at the idea to begin with. Or call it another case of government waste.

Your comment interests me, because I believe the best art is born from hardship, angst, passion, or difficulty. I rarely see impressive expression from contented or happy times of plenty... even in my own life. Do you think this applies to art from behind the iron curtain?

 

[Jeremy Mudd]

Those of you who mentioned you carried a backpack of a few lenses and 2 backs. What sort of photo outing was that? At home or in my country with a road trip I could manage it but it's not something I could do as easily overseas relying on public transportation like Singapore or Tokyo.... A TLR or some other 6x6 or a rangefinder 6x7 be easier.

My trips with the RB67 are road trips with no public transportation, and then following that some moderate amount of hiking with a pack on my back.

Having traveled extensively for work in China, Taiwan, and Malaysia and using public transportation, I typically would go smaller on my gear choices, only because I know how tight spaces can be in those situations and personal space is non-existent. Typically in those situations I just have one DSLR body and 1-2 lenses at most.

 

[narsuitus]

Those of you who mentioned you carried a backpack of a few lenses and 2 backs. What sort of photo outing was that?

I can easily carry only one film back on outings where I know that I will have a constant light source. For example, if I know I will only be shooting outdoors on bright sunny days, I can easily take one film back and a few rolls of film.

However, if I have no idea what the lighting will be or if I know that the lighting will be changing rapidly, I prefer to take multiple film backs loaded with film with different film speeds.

For example, I may carry:
Two film backs loaded with Ilford HP5 Plus (ISO 400)
One film back loaded with FomaPan (ISO 100)
One film back loaded with Ilford Delta Pro (ISO 3200)

That way, I can change quickly from one ISO to another as the lighting changes.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Those of you who mentioned you carried a backpack of a few lenses and 2 backs. What sort of photo outing was that? At home or in my country with a road trip I could manage it but it's not something I could do as easily overseas relying on public transportation like Singapore or Tokyo.... A TLR or some other 6x6 or a rangefinder 6x7 be easier.

It depend which camera backpack I use. One overseas trips I will carry a few lenses, while on a trip by car I may carry a large camera back pack and pick out one of many lenses at a place I stop.

 

[Arthurwg]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-weapon-1578808.html

Money well spent for once. The CIA also operated a few prestigious book publishers. I also believe that the agency funded MS magazine, as a way to convince American women that it was a great idea to go to work after the GAO came out with a study saying that one-income households were no longer viable and that a family of four would need two incomes to sustain it.

 

[Arthurwg]

Warhol is a stale commodity. I never want to see another Warhol or Avedon;

Those two names should never appear in the same sentence.

 

[Philippe-Georges]

This is what I take, but not at the same time...

I also reject the idea that the RB is strictly a studio camera.

My RB67 SLR with three lenses and three extra film backs is not light; but it is lighter and less bulky than my 4x5 film camera with three lenses and a dozen sheet film holders.



Mamiya RB67 Kit by Narsuitus, on Flickr

 

[macfred]

This is what I take, but not at the same time...

These are two serious kits of gear ! Reallly appreciate the Linhof Technorama 617 !!