Lack of affordable new cameras = death knell for film photography?

removed account4

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Hey dan. I just posted it as a new camera being made .ez to get a 90mm super Angulon in a shutter for wayless than 500$. And a viewer is really not too expensive. I see where you are coming from but one could also repurpose a shuttered lens from a 3a Kodak folder whose 122 film is no longer made and use the viewer from that 3a folders cost about the same as the plans for the camera.Ymmvftsitwotd
 

jtk

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"affordable" depends on whose bank account we're discussing

There's also the matter of space for a darkroom Vs space for an excellent inkjet printer...i.e. Epson Pro.

There's also the matter of time. I prefer to spend my time with PS and Epson Vs darkroom time.

Most of my prints were pre-visualized, but sometimes I discover extra potentials/options when printing. Much more potential with PS/equiv.

There's also the matter of storage. I make a lot of prints...sometimes. If I distribute prints I keep inkjet copies.

Importantly, when film cameras need repairs (e.g. Hasselblad usually) that takes forever and costs more than really excellent APS-C digital cameras cost to replace.
 

Helge

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jtk said:
Importantly, when film cameras need repairs (e.g. Hasselblad usually) that takes forever and costs more than really excellent APS-C digital cameras cost to replace.
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You’re basically asking for it with Hasselblad.

The image quality when it works, is not even remotely comparable to an APS sensor.
Even half-frame format has qualities that take it above APS sensors. Trouble was always printing and worse still scanning half-frame.
Academy format was smaller and was blown up on huge screens without the front row ever complaining.

Other film cameras are not anywhere near as expensive to repair, or need as much fixing as most other brands though.
 
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Donald Qualls

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The 3a lens covers the 6x12 format, but isn't in any way wide angle -- and probably won't stand up to much enlargement, in terms of image quality. However, I do stand corrected -- I saw 90mm Angulons for just over $100, an Super Angulons starting a little over $200, as well as 65mm Super Angulons under $200. Next question is where to source the required helicoid (for focusing)?

Ever week or so, I tell myself "I have got to get a 3D printer." The other day, it was my partner telling me I need one. Probably have to get one this year.
 

NB23

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138S said:
yeah

A Pro (digital) photographer tried my F5... he asked: how this thing can focus that fast ????
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what kind of pro is he?
 

138S

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NB23 said:
what kind of pro is he?
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Like many Pros he has to do may thinks to survive: wedding, protraits, newborn, mugshots...

The F5 was even able to destroy AF gearing of some 3rd party "discount lenses", you need a D5 class machine to slightly surpase the F5 which is able to reliable continuous focusing at 8 FPS .

Of course modern machines have way more advanced image intelligence to detect faces, smiles, eyes... but a modern digital hard shooter trying (for example) spot focus mode with the 24 years old F5 with a cheap-fantastic 50mm F/1.8 AFD... he gets a surprise when he sees that it's well faster than (say) D610 with the usual 24-85.

The F5 was imported "from future".

To you have an idea, it perfectly deals with continuous AF while machinegunning, and yes, you have to load a new roll after 3 seconds, true...


Me, I use the F5 with moving kids, personally with it I get better the shot I want than with the D610. Or better said, with the F5 I get better shots than I would be able to guess when shooting, and of course better shots than my poor artistic level should allow.

This are examples:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/125592977@N05/21478354193/ (see focus nailed in the right of the glasses in such a dynamic shot)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/125592977@N05/14725984164/

Sorry, but with the F5 I'm lost... A F5 can be piloted like an acrobatic plane !
 
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Arthurwg

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Helge said:
No, why waste time and energy on that shit‽ I just avoid watching him.
And when people like that are brought up, I try to explain my stance, and why to avoid them.
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Actually you do seem to waste a good deal of time and energy on that "shit." Nick seems to be enjoying himself and his photography, which I think is very important. Can't imagine why you have this attitude. And while you are at it, please post some of your pictures. I'm curious.
 

Christiaan Phleger

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But a Neopan 400 II is what Fuji should really be making.

Affordable cameras exist. I think realistic repair and maintenance in the future is more of a concern. Support your internet local repair person.
 

Arthurwg

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I'm beginning to think of film cameras as disposable. When they can no longer be repaired, just buy another
 

138S

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Auer said:
Never heard of Carver, wish Fuji had some B&W film out.....
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As an influencer, Carver has been important in the film scene because he demostrates the future's film viability with the new generations, without entering in the Artistic considerations for sure he is a good photographer.

As always, scanning is a very controversial field because many have commercial interests, and when you highlight the strengths of a cheap machine you get intense crossfire from them.

In particular, here min 22:00


he praises color management of the cheap machine as being superior for Negative film and equal to drums for slides, which is a totally fair consideration as Negafix is pure gold. That video had been seen (until today) by 85.000 people, and this is painful for some. This contradicts many forged side by side tests designed to discredit the cheap machine, in those tets the cheap machine results came from poor operation: focus not ensured or not using Multi-Exposure when it was needed, for example.

Not extrange that Fuji highlights Nick's profile (https://www.ishootfujifilm.com/spotlight/nick-carver), that kind of activity is pure fuel for the film scene.

What Fuji should do (for me) is making plans to source film for the long term, this is making an expansive commercial policy trying to get profits from an expanded customer base in the long term, and not a short term bet taking profits now and not considering future sells because then don't have faith in film's future.

Well, film long term endurance has been a surprise for many marketing officers and strategic planners. Discontinuing Acros and Ektachrome and later having to invest again to re-start the product manufacturing and commercialization gives a clue about their pitfalls.

It is interesting that by 2020 we are complaining about Lack of affordable new cameras. Nice !!!!
 
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Helge

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Why don't you tell me where? You seem to be an expert.
Explaining my dislike over a few posts hardly qualifies?

He's just this quite typical douchebagish, slick, charlatan, stealth blowhard, where if you have to explain the negative traits to people, it's probably because they are smitten and blind to them already in some way, and wouldn't be able to see them, from just having it explained to them in mere words (often interpreting an attempt as just randomly placed envy).

Of course he's doing nothing particularly nefarious or "wrong".
He's just humblebragging and outright bragging, while disguising it as "education" and information in his drawn-out masturbatory videos.
I'm talking not just the spoken content, but the material values, locations and gear he chooses to, casually but prominently display.

He constructs this facade of a nice, down to earth guy, "who also makes mistakes" while those "mistakes" too are carefully curated theatre.
All the while with a bit of experience you can easily see through the cracks, errors of omission and plain lies in his carefully constructed varnish.

I've just seen so many of them in real life and on YouTube I've stopped even trying to outright ignore them.

Constructing a personae and facade of a humble guy who also just happens to be casually "AWESOME" in all these ways, is very, very hard work, and tells a great deal about his priorities in life and his general character.

As I said in the other thread, all that would be of little importance, if he was a great photographer (who cares if they are primadonnas, as long as they can sing?).
But he is at best mediocre, by any standard and highly derivative (don't start with the old variation of the ad hominem attack "you do better". Ability and right to critique of course needn't have much to do with the subjects own abilities in the field. I'd say that I am a better photographer than him though, and so is most people in here).
Whatever business he might really have, he sells purely on the face of his spiel alluded to above.

Now, anyone knows that a successful photographer during the last hundred years or so has had to have some combination of personal storytelling and charisma to make it anywhere, but if that is not combined with at least a good helping of talent, originality (whatever that is) and personality in their expression, it's impossible to take them seriously as someone to learn from, or even listen to.
 
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Helge

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138S said:
As an influencer, Carver has been important in the film scene because he demostrates the future's film viability with the new generations, without entering in the Artistic considerations for sure he is a good photographer.
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What is he, 35 to 45? While I, and any sane person would say that is young, it doesn't fit in with the established medias and recent Hollywood notion, that panders to the pervasive myth of the boy (or girl) genius, that does it all and conquers the world from 14 to 21 and instinctually knows everything they need in their heart.
Then just retires in due anonymity for the majority of their lives after that.
Any people older than that in the narrative, are just extras or villains.
He is definitely not YouTubes "new generation".

And to others reading this: Spare yourself reading anything 138S writes about Epson scanners.
Either he is paid to do it (I really hope so. Else you might have a talk with Epson, 138S) or he has some strange, irrational affection for the brand and machines.
 
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138S

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Helge said:
Either he is paid to do it (I really hope so. Else you might have a talk with Epson, 138S) or he has some strange, irrational affection for the brand and machines.
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Sorry but you miss the shot. Carver is the one that has near 300.000 views of his youtube video teaching how to use the Epson:


Anyway, you know, what Carver says about color from min 22:00 is essentially true:


Regading resolving power, a proficient Epson user can obtain absolutely Pro scans, it's only about checking focus, with only 1.2mm curling in the film you get just half the resolving power (from 7 to 14 micros approx) in the H axis, or better said, if a user is able to use proficiently the new ANR glass holders then he may obtain twice the resolving power you may think the Epson is able.




Helge said:
And to others reading this: Spare yourself reading anything 138S writes about Epson scanners.
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The graph I've just posted would be very useful for any using an Epson, it tells how important is being proficient when scanning with it. Want top notch results from a $500 machine ? Be proficient !

And to others reading this: don't belive much those having commercial interests: because they have commercial interests and many are not honest.
 

Donald Qualls

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The new ANR glass holders, however, are a not-affordable option for many. The last offerings I saw for those were running well above a hundred dollars for a single strip 35mm or 120 holder, and they appear to only be available for the current, $800-$1200 Epson models.

"Be proficient" is great advice -- how to come by proficiency, when you struggle to have time and money to shoot, process, and scan?
 

jtk

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Am stuck with a 24x30 Folon silk screen print ...signed/authenticated ...shot it APS C today...even the tiny pencil signature shows amazing textural detail. Hand held, natural shade. Will be sold to print collector. Impossible with film.

Friend sent B&W portrait of me, 1979. Significantly cropped with similar portrait of Steiglitz inset. Amusing pairing. Certainly eternal as inkjet print, online image, and as digital files. He scanned his 1979 plus x with ancient Epson, downloaded Alfred from a website, processed all with a PS clone, printed on Moab paper. Friend is too serious about his art than to wank with film cameras. Not every 80 year old photographer wants to waste his time in a darkroom when he loves a woman.
 

Donald Qualls

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jtk said:
Friend is too serious about his art than to wank with film cameras.
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This is a film camera discussion, though, and in an analog forum. Some of us don't care to hear about "can't do that with film" or start an argument that begins "yes you can."
 

138S

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454€ plus taxes in my country. https://www.pccomponentes.com/epson-perfection-v800-photo-escaner-fotografico

or you may spend $30 in a 4x5" ANR holder, for example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Epson-Perf...481504&hash=item282e434d19:g:jX0AAOSwZqZaFkye


Donald Qualls said:
"Be proficient" is great advice -- how to come by proficiency, when you struggle to have time and money to shoot, process, and scan?
Click to expand...

It's like riding on a bicycle, difficult at the beginning, later you go fast.
 

Donald Qualls

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138S said:
454€ plus taxes in my country. https://www.pccomponentes.com/epson-perfection-v800-photo-escaner-fotografico
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I haven't seen any that low -- and I was looking just a couple weeks ago. Never can tell, though, there might be an 800 or 850 for that price today. I wound up with a 4870, which is already 4x the resolution of my old Agfa.

or you may spend $30 in a 4x5" ANR holder, for example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Epson-Perf...481504&hash=item282e434d19:g:jX0AAOSwZqZaFkye
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Sadly, those only fit the 800/850. I don't know that such a thing even exists (or ever did) for the model I have. I could probably modify my existing ones, but the bare ANR glass costs more than the holders that contain it -- and I don't think I could modify an 800 holder fit my 4870 the way I did with the 4990 holders I was able to get.

It's like riding on a bicycle, difficult at the beginning, later you go fast.
Click to expand...

Bicycles were great, before I got a driver's license. Last time I got on one, it wasn't hard to keep upright, but it seemed like a lot more work to get anywhere than it did fifty years ago.
 

Donald Qualls

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Sure. If I could get them to fit a 4990, I'd be confident of being able to modify them to work in my 4870. I do see 4x5 ANR that would fit my scanner for a reasonable cost, and glass only that I can lay on top of the film. That seller doesn't seem to offer that for 35mm, however, and my 35mm seems to curl more than my 120.
 
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