Konica auto S2 shutter speed adjustment

[Josh Zierten]

Hi All,
I walked away for 6 months and suddenly the site changes it's name, but that's not my question. I picked up a Konica auto S2 at an estate sale for a few bucks and of course it has all the usual problems. The aperture blades were stuck, the rangefinder mirror was loose, floating in the assembly, the meter wires corroded and broke off the battery holder and the slow shutter speeds are slow. Like slower than they are supposed to be.

I soaked the shutter in some lighter fluid and sprayed some crc contact cleaner into the various crevices and got my aperture blades working. They are still not exactly reliable but that could just be from grease moving around or something but they seem to be working.

I can fix all the other issues but the slow speeds won't come back to where they should. One second is about 1.5 seconds. Half a second is about one second etc. I think the fast speeds are fine. I looked in the shutter in vain to find some sort of adjustment I could maybe make to tweak the speeds. Right now the one second sounds like it's struggling. I do notice that if I move this or prevent that from moving all the way in the shutter I can slightly tweak the speeds but it's not a fix. Is there a way to adjust the slow shutter speeds? Or do I need to replace or adjust my main spring to push harder?

If it's the main spring it probably means all my other mechanical shutters, that have lagging slow speeds, that I have not cleaned, probably need new or tweaked springs also.Thanks in advance.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Hi All,
I walked away for 6 months and suddenly the site changes it's name, but that's not my question. I picked up a Konica auto S2 at an estate sale for a few bucks and of course it has all the usual problems. The aperture blades were stuck, the rangefinder mirror was loose, floating in the assembly, the meter wires corroded and broke off the battery holder and the slow shutter speeds are slow. Like slower than they are supposed to be.

I soaked the shutter in some lighter fluid and sprayed some crc contact cleaner into the various crevices and got my aperture blades working. They are still not exactly reliable but that could just be from grease moving around or something but they seem to be working.

I can fix all the other issues but the slow speeds won't come back to where they should. One second is about 1.5 seconds. Half a second is about one second etc. I think the fast speeds are fine. I looked in the shutter in vain to find some sort of adjustment I could maybe make to tweak the speeds. Right now the one second sounds like it's struggling. I do notice that if I move this or prevent that from moving all the way in the shutter I can slightly tweak the speeds but it's not a fix. Is there a way to adjust the slow shutter speeds? Or do I need to replace or adjust my main spring to push harder?

If it's the main spring it probably means all my other mechanical shutters, that have lagging slow speeds, that I have not cleaned, probably need new or tweaked springs also.Thanks in advance.

"If it's the main spring it probably means all my other mechanical shutters, that have lagging slow speeds, that I have not cleaned, probably need new or tweaked springs also.Thanks in advance."
Seriously? It hasn't occurred to you that they need to be properly cleaned and lubricated, rather than have the spring fiddled with?? Soaking in solvent, or spraying with something, is not "cleaning", nor does it address the lubrication issue.

 

[Josh Zierten]

It hasn't occurred to you that they need to be properly cleaned and lubricated, rather than have the spring fiddled with??

Indeed it has. But after staring into the mechanism for several hours and moving parts to see how things work it looks more to be a spring issue than a dirt or grease issue. As well, removing the escapement will be rather difficult.

The gearing works just fine and in and of it's self seems to move very smoothly. There is no resistance. It just seems to need an adjustment. It's not so hard to expect a device to need adjustment from time to time and mechanical shutters are no different. Many models, compurs, that I have looked at have adjustment screws for tweaking speed and things.

In the case of the auto S2 I couldn't find anything that looked like that. And after inspecting it for a long while it seemed like the main spring was the only thing that might have really worn out. It does in fact happen.

By "properly cleaned and lubricated" do you mean sent away to be serviced? Because the camera isn't worth that much and I don't have all that much money to be dropping on camera repair these days. I also would much rather learn the inner workings.

If you could elaborate, and include some pictures and/or details as to how to clean, and what parts to lubricate where, with what lubricant, that would be much appreciated.


QUOTE="E. von Hoegh, post: 2004913, member: 52751"]Soaking in solvent, or spraying with something, is not "cleaning", nor does it address the lubrication issue.[/QUOTE]

In almost all the posts I have read regarding this camera and others, soaking in naphtha and or spraying with a degreaser does in fact restore old speeds to close to where they should be. Now maybe those people didn't time their shutter, or didn't notice it wasn't perfect. Maybe I didn't soak my shutter long enough or agitate it well enough and maybe there is still gunky whale oil or whatever is said to be used in these cameras.

I don't have a problem with dismantling a shutter if I have to. But I don't want to if it's not required.

Any ideas are appreciated.

Thanks

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Soaking in naphtha spreads degraded lubricant and dirt throughout the mechanism, spraying does the same thing but worse. It needs to be disassembled and cleaned in an ultrasonic, naphtha is a fine cleaning solvent but a bit of a fire hazard.Denatured alcohol works well, so does a 50-50 mix of the two. Don't put plastic or painted parts in the solvent. Whatever you use for cleaning solvent will need to be changed several times, using fresh solvent as a final rinse. The aperture needs also to be disassembled, it must be free of grease and dirt to function as (IIRC) this is a shutter priority automatic camera.
"In almost all the posts I have read regarding this camera and others, soaking in naphtha and or spraying with a degreaser does in fact restore old speeds to close to where they should be". Did they post measured shutter speeds? How did the shutter work six months later? I read somewhere on the internet that the entire British royal family were lizard type aliens in human guise; just about as believable. Clean the shutter properly, lubricate it properly, and it will most likely time well.
I'm not familiar with your camera and can give only very general advice, it most likely has a Copal shutter and there is a service manual out there for it, this will specify what lubricant and where to put it. You cannot reach all lubrication points with the camera assembled.
I use several shutters well over 100 years in age, I've never had to readjust a mainspring. I did have to replace one that broke, on a pre WWI Compound shutter.

 

[Josh Zierten]

Ok, great. That is some what helpful and I was begging to come to the same conclusion myself. I will have to look for said service manual, but I suspect, it will be hard to find. It is a Copal SVA, which I think only came on this camera. I might be wrong. I might set this project aside to work on my other cameras.

I have other cameras with slow shutters in the slow regime, but they are entirely manual, so I can compensate and it doesn't leave me feeling like they don't work. In this case though, since it is shutter priority in the auto and I would like the camera to be fully functional, I feel a bit more motivated to clean it. I also need to get an ultra sonic cleaner apparently. Thanks again.

If any one has any ideas about cleaning the shutter et cetera, don't hold back.
Thanks in advance.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Search for the Copal SV shutter, where they are identical the SV info will apply - the SVA is a modification, and will have some commonality.
A small ultrasonic will suffice, but get one rated at least 30 watts, 50w if possible, and it should have a basket as well. Small fairly stiff brushes, cheap artist's brushes say, are very handy. I brush befor and during the ultrsonic treatment. You'll be surprised how much comes off a seemingly clean set of parts.
Very good synthetic oils are available from Nye, you'll need a light clock oil and some light grease. Basic rule: if it turns, oil, if it slides, grease. Only the tiniest amount of either is necessary, you'll need a 4 to 6x loupe to see it. An artist's crowquill pen is a very good and cheap applicator.

 

[Josh Zierten]

Ok, I will look, Thanks. I may have to improvise something as to the ultra sonic cleaner. Ideally I'd also have a fume hood.

What I would really actually like, is proper screw driver. The screw heads of this particular camera have very shallow, narrow long slots. Only my smallest and narrowest jewelers screw driver works, and only for lightly torqued screws. Every thing else I am liable to strip the head. It's a bit frustrating. I may have to look on McMaster-Carr or the like for something.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Ok, I will look, Thanks. I may have to improvise something as to the ultra sonic cleaner. Ideally I'd also have a fume hood.

What I would really actually like, is proper screw driver. The screw heads of this particular camera have very shallow, narrow long slots. Only my smallest and narrowest jewelers screw driver works, and only for lightly torqued screws. Every thing else I am liable to strip the head. It's a bit frustrating. I may have to look on McMaster-Carr or the like for something.

The solution for screwdrivers is to get a #6 oval swiss file and file the blades to fit the screws, file to a hollow profile so te part which enters the slot is square and parralel. A #6 flat file to keep the end square is handy.Buy the best screwdrivers you can get. Good tweezers are a must.

 

[Josh Zierten]

I got the tweezers just recently. Not $50 Swiss made tweezers, but nice enough. I'll have to find a driver to file down. I might have something close already. Thanks.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

http://www.daniel.mitchell.name/cameras/index.php?page=default

 

[Josh Zierten]

I did see this site and his tear down of the Copal MXV but I don't think I read it thoroughly enough. The MXV is similar to the SVA enough that I pretty much know what to do. Thanks.