Kodak's Qualex Processing to Close March 2009

[JMC1969]

I have to say I agree with Sam on this. This is just my opinion and I'm always willing to listen to the other side. However, from my perspective, I have seen and heard of the rapid closures of small Pro labs and independent camera shops all over the country. With the closing on big facilities like this costumers are going to have to make some decisions. 1. Go digital, which no of us want to hear or 2. find an alternative place to have their film processed. Of course this means the small pro lab are going to find themselves in need of doing things they are not accustom to, like advertising. Let people know there is an alternative for them and you are close by. Maybe some of these closures of small business start to come back because of new demand and the rest of us wouldn't be hold our breath before taking the next draw of air through a straw. Again, I could be wrong, but I would not have too much of a problem with seeing big box stores discontinue there processing services, it just seems to be an opportunity for the small guy. I don't see film disappearing anytime soon. And really in a case like E6, you are taking it to them for them to ship off to be processed and returned. You can do this yourself, heck, you can send it to me right now if you like. I know Pro labs are more expensive than these big guys, but a lot of that has to do with volume vs cost, which is why places like Qualex are shutting down. It's just too big for the market in this day and age.

I could write a book here so I will stop now and take the wrath that is sure to come.

Jody

 

[Simon R Galley]

Dear All,

We would not look at wholesale photofinishing as a route to take our business :

We do process and print monochrome ourselves in the UK for the UK and Europe, and it has been a great success, obviously monochrome is our key competency, we are working with our distributors Worldwide and with a partner in the USA to expand out quality monochrome processing using adapted FUJI Frontiers, our first European install took place last week in Belgium.

As to ILFOCHROME : That is owned by ILFORD Imaging Switzerland ( part of the OJI Paper Co of Japan ) I am sure you can find a lab list on their website, I actually happen to know one of the finest is actually in TORONTO Elevator, a great supporter of APUG.

Regards

Simon : ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

 

[Alex Bishop-Thorpe]

I also recommended they buy out Kodak's former Lab in Lausanne, Switzerland to ensure Ilfochrome printing in Europe. I suggested they may also wish to purchase from Kodak the Ownership and Formulas for several niche Films they have discontinued: Panatomic-X, Verichrome Pan, Tech Pan, Ektar 25 and Super XX, and perhaps even Kodachrome. These niche Films were popular with photographers, and Kodak isn't interested in serving niche customers. As shown by this stupid decision to close the Qualex and the Lausanne Labs, the future of Film is not with Kodak. It's sad, but true.

I'd rather see Ilford continue to be Ilford and do it very well than try to be all things to all people and spread themselves too thin. There are alternatives to most things on your list too - the future of film isnt in the past.

 

[TerryM]

Collective Replies

Hello TerryM,
I think Elevator in Toronto does Ilfochrome.
Cheers,Clarence

Thanks Clarence, I'll look into it. The advantage to Qualex is NO Postage Fees, and no risk of damage in the Mail. Kodak is crazy to part with it, and foolish for not using it as a free delivery service to their customers. They lost a great opportunity.

I'm not sure whether Ilford would be interested in buying out Qualex. Qualex's main premise is bulk processing, something that is not conducive to Ilford's purpose.
That being said, I do think it might be a good idea if Ilford bought out the Allentown, PA Qualex lab (the smallest one) and set up a smaller, professional level send-out service that photo stores could use. For example, the stores that do not have sufficient volume to develop E-6 and MF/LF film can use Ilford to develop their E-6 and MF/LF films instead.

Nick, the main benefit to Ilford in owning Qualex is to provide professional printing of their Ilfochrome -- which will increase sales of Ilfochrome. Qualex would also provide them a FREE delivery service to their customers, and a free storage depot in North America. The Dallas Lab would be needed to service Mexico and South America, and they definitely would want to keep the Canadian Lab just outside Toronto.

... Encouraging a small company to spend their capital on a declining industry in specialized fields (E-6, K-14) that are going extinct is corporate suicide...

Sam, the decline of Film developing will directly lead to a decline of Film sales! As I noted, Qualex is an opportunity for Ilford to increase availability and usage of their Ilfochrome. This would be good for Ilford!

Terry, I think this a bit unfair, because Kodak has invested a lot during the last years to stay healthy in film business.
They have introduced a lot new or improved films since Photokina 2006 (Portra 160 NC-2 and VC-2, Portra 400 NC-2 and VC-2, Portra 800-3, TMY-2, Portra 400 NC-3 and VC-3, Ektar 100).
They did much more in R&D than Fuji and Ilford.
Yes, they have cancelled their old "100 flavours for 100 countries" strategy. Not making dozens of (now) tiny niche products anymore.
But so they can stay in business and serve us well with improved "main" products.
And the niches are filled by other manufacturers, see for example Technical Pan.

Hi Jana, I don't mean to criticize the devoted people who work at Kodak. The Film people are very devoted to Film! The problem with Kodak is that the "majority Shareholders" who control the Company are a bunch of money-grubbing Mutual Funds. Mutual Funds ruin any company they control. These Funds are only interested in money, money, money -- profit, profit, profit. These Funds couldn't care less about Film nor Digital -- just money! All of the bad decisions at Kodak for the past decade can be blamed on the Mutual Funds which own it. I don't see any prospect for this problem to be rectified in the foreseeable future. It distresses me greatly, but it's out of my control. Wall Street people ruin everything they get their hands on. I agree that Kodak must be profitable, but it is possible to make small profits on niche customers. Kodachrome would have had higher sales if they offered it to all their customers -- including Movie customers. Someone on the cinematography website had suggested last year that it would be good if Hollywood bought Kodak. That would be good if it came about.

... With the closing on big facilities like this costumers are going to have to make some decisions. 1. Go digital, which no of us want to hear or 2. find an alternative place to have their film processed. Of course this means the small pro lab are going to find themselves in need of doing things they are not accustom to, like advertising. Let people know there is an alternative for them and you are close by. ... but I would not have too much of a problem with seeing big box stores discontinue there processing services, it just seems to be an opportunity for the small guy. I don't see film disappearing anytime soon. And really in a case like E6, you are taking it to them for them to ship off to be processed and returned.

Jody, I do have a few "Local Labs" which have 135 developing machines. However, the issue is QUALITY. When I took my Films to a local Lab, they came back with abrasions and scratches! Since I knew about Qualex, I called them up to see which store they dealt with. I could barely find a scratch on Films developed by Qualex! Additionally, developing colour Film is a complicated process that requires very accurate TEMPERATURE control, and constant testing and replenishing of the Chemicals. Those cheap automated machines in local Labs will not provide top quality developing, and they don't have the necessary skilled people to properly maintain them. Poor quality developing will certainly drive people to go Digital. I want my Films developed by a "professional" Lab, and I don't want to have to pay high Postage Fees nor lose my Films in the Mail. Qualex eliminated Postage Fees, and drastically reduces the potential for loss. One problem is that Qualex doesn't advertise itself as a professional Lab. Their drop box at Wal-Mart didn't even mention their name, and didn't mention that they develop ALL types of Film including Movie. People think that it's Wal-Mart doing the developing.

We would not look at wholesale photofinishing as a route to take our business :

Simon, is your business a direct part of Ilford? I did suggest to them that they could go 50/50 with another company in buying Qualex. One thing that is different about North America is the SIZE of this huge Continent. The population in England is concentrated, and so you don't have to drive very far to get to a professional Lab. However, in North America such things aren't within a practical driving distance. That's why Qualex is "affiliated" with Stores so that people don't have to go any farther than their local Store. You also have a much better Postal Service in Britain than elsewhere. In N. A. we only get the mail once a day, and it costs more. Qualex is its own delivery service.

I'd rather see Ilford continue to be Ilford and do it very well than try to be all things to all people and spread themselves too thin. There are alternatives to most things on your list too - the future of film isnt in the past.

Alex, what I did suggest to Ilford (regarding these niche Films) is that they could take "pre-paid" Orders for these Films. So, they may only run off production of a Master Roll after about 2/3 or 3/4 of it has been sold in advance. This is a safe approach to serving niche customers.

 

[JMC1969]

Jody, I do have a few "Local Labs" which have 135 developing machines. However, the issue is QUALITY. When I took my Films to a local Lab, they came back with abrasions and scratches! Since I knew about Qualex, I called them up to see which store they dealt with. I could barely find a scratch on Films developed by Qualex! Additionally, developing colour Film is a complicated process that requires very accurate TEMPERATURE control, and constant testing and replenishing of the Chemicals. Those cheap automated machines in local Labs will not provide top quality developing, and they don't have the necessary skilled people to properly maintain them. Poor quality developing will certainly drive people to go Digital. I want my Films developed by a "professional" Lab, and I don't want to have to pay high Postage Fees nor lose my Films in the Mail. Qualex eliminated Postage Fees, and drastically reduces the potential for loss. One problem is that Qualex doesn't advertise itself as a professional Lab. Their drop box at Wal-Mart didn't even mention their name, and didn't mention that they develop ALL types of Film including Movie. People think that it's Wal-Mart doing the developing.

Terry, I understand your concerns with labs that call themselves "Pro" and yet don't have a "Pro" behind the wheel. We are in a rather small market in the corner of the country, but we do the following:
E6- (daily runs)135,120,220,127,110,4x5,8x10 (very rare, but occasionally)
C41- Ditto above
B&W- same formats but generally only once a week.
All in house.
All of our machines are Dip-and-Dunk, temperature controlled and hand checked before each run, and replenished after each run, with capability to push and pull as costumers request. B&W is in a Dip-and-Dunk if we get a large amount of rolls with the same development time, otherwise it is hand dipped in large tank.

As far as postage or trusting the postal service, I can't say. We take in a fairly little amount of mail in film, but have never had a problem. We have not had aggressive advertising such a thing because generally it drives the cost up for the consumer, but some would rather have a higher cost than a higher loss due to damaged film. My feeling is that if box stores quit processing services, our volumes will go up and the overall development charges will go down due to the amount that is being run through. Hopefully to offset the cost of shipping for some. Dream? Maybe, but I would still like to see more film come through our doors.

Cheers

 

[TerryM]

Terry, I understand your concerns with labs that call themselves "Pro" and yet don't have a "Pro" behind the wheel. We are in a rather small market in the corner of the country, but we do the following:
E6- (daily runs)135,120,220,127,110,4x5,8x10 (very rare, but occasionally)
C41- Ditto above
B&W- same formats but generally only once a week.
All in house.
All of our machines are Dip-and-Dunk, temperature controlled and hand checked before each run, and replenished after each run, with capability to push and pull as costumers request. B&W is in a Dip-and-Dunk if we get a large amount of rolls with the same development time, otherwise it is hand dipped in large tank.

As far as postage or trusting the postal service, I can't say. We take in a fairly little amount of mail in film, but have never had a problem. We have not had aggressive advertising such a thing because generally it drives the cost up for the consumer, but some would rather have a higher cost than a higher loss due to damaged film. My feeling is that if box stores quit processing services, our volumes will go up and the overall development charges will go down due to the amount that is being run through. Hopefully to offset the cost of shipping for some. Dream? Maybe, but I would still like to see more film come through our doors.

Hi Jody,
I commend your strong commitment to quality, and I certainly would trust you to develop Film. I'm surprised that you develop E6 on a daily basis, and I strongly praise your service to your customers. Your standards are undoubtedly higher than Qualex -- which was notorious at the Fairlawn, NJ Plant. Unfortunately, in a small town of 46,000 where I live, it's not likely to find a "pro" type local service. I obviously would never again trust the shop (Japan Camera Centre) that scratched my Films. (The new guy who bought that shop a few years ago is a strong Digihead.) I don't trust the local people running the machine at Wal-Mart -- the "lowest price" means cutting corners. I had been sending it out from Wal-Mart to Qualex since I don't mind waiting to get it back. (Even if Qualex costed more than Wal-Mart, I would have still sent it to Qualex.) In many smaller communities there is no local developing Lab at all. For them, without Qualex they're screwed, and many Film users will now go Digital! I'm also a Super8 user, and without Qualex it is going to be very hard to find professional processing of Super8. Qualex also developed 16mm & 35mm Movie Films. The closure of Qualex is very bad for Movie Film developing.

The main reason I recommended to Ilford to buy Qualex is so that they can provide professional printing of their Ilfochrome. A lot of people will have quit using Transparency Films (like Kodachrome) because they couldn't get photos printed. Rather than scan & print them digitally, many people will just go Digital. I have some precious Slides from the early '60s that I would like to print on Ilfochrome, but I would never risk sending them in the mail which would cost about $16 return postage anyway! I would suggest that you may wish to start printing Ilfochrome Photographs for your local city of Jacksonville. The wider availability of Ilfochrome will help to sustain the Transparency Film market.

 

[cmacd123]

I'm also a Super8 user, and without Qualex it is going to be very hard to find professional processing of Super8. Qualex also developed 16mm & 35mm Movie Films. The closure of Qualex is very bad for Movie Film developing.

The ONLY lab still running Kodachrome for some time now has been Dwaynes photo. they also run the super 8 ektachrome. B&W movie film or Colour negative can go to any number of Movie labs. although I belive that it is almost imposible to get prints from super 8 negative these days. The movie business tends to use the digital edit option these days.

The main reason I recommended to Ilford to buy Qualex is so that they can provide professional printing of their Ilfochrome.

As our good friend Simon pointed out Harmon/Ilford no longer owns the ILFOCHROME line. Perhaps the folks that run that business may want to expand the number of service providers.

Even if someone were to take over one or more Qualex facilities, they would find that they either use Reversal Printing for slides, or more likly use the scan and laser method on RA4 paper.

I have some precious Slides from the early '60s that I would like to print on Ilfochrome, but I would never risk sending them in the mail

That is where the digital intermediate method is a help, have them scanned localy and printed whever in the world there is the capability. of course that is not real analog photography!

IN real analog life, how you considered using Fed-ex? while the risk of loss is still there, that sort of courrier does tend to have rigerous tracking.

 

[TerryM]

... Even if someone were to take over one or more Qualex facilities, they would find that they either use Reversal Printing for slides, ...

I thought that Kodak discontinued this Paper about four years ago. Perhaps Ron (the PE) can verify this.

Regarding Ilford, it was the Ilford Imaging Company in Switzerland whom I contacted. Ilford would have a vested interest to expand Qualex's services to include Ilfochrome.

 

[Ektagraphic]

It is too bad. I think it will really impact film. I use them occasionally to send out Kodachrome.

 

[accozzaglia]

Update for Canadians:

As of last week, Shoppers is no longer able to accept Kodachrome. This confirms that their partnership with Fuji involved Qualex. I still have some Kodachrome outstanding that was sent out a couple of weeks ago, but I was reassured that it was going to come back ok. My guess is that others (London Drugs, PharmaPlus, Rexall, etc.), if they had an arrangement before, likely do not now.

I am now a sad panda.

 

[B&Wpositive]

Update for Canadians:

As of last week, Shoppers is no longer able to accept Kodachrome. This confirms that their partnership with Fuji involved Qualex. I still have some Kodachrome outstanding that was sent out a couple of weeks ago, but I was reassured that it was going to come back ok. My guess is that others (London Drugs, PharmaPlus, Rexall, etc.), if they had an arrangement before, likely do not now.

I am now a sad panda.

Fuji? Huhhh. I wonder if stores that use Fuji processing in the US will be impacted by this closure. I hope not! I've got tons of Kodachrome to shoot!

 

[aluk]

Update for Canadians:

As of last week, Shoppers is no longer able to accept Kodachrome.

Sh**...$12 per roll was really nice, I should have known it was too good to last - and here I figured I still had another full month to get my film out

Perhaps I'll save up a bunch of Kodachrome for a trip to the States, drop them at Walmart on day 1, and pick 'em up right before I leave.... on that note, perhaps someone could answer either (or both) of the following questions:

1) Does this mean the end of those nice Kodak boxes and mounts?
2) If I have a couple of extra rolls of European (i.e. process-paid) K64, can I send it in the mailer it to Kodak Canada (or Switzerland, for that matter) without paying for processing? I know that until not too long ago (20 yrs?) you could buy process-paid film here as well, although now we get the American stuff.

 

[accozzaglia]

I'm going to stop into Henry's soon and find out if this also impacts their Kodachrome order-taking service. If not, then I'll start going there. If it does, then it's time to learn about any loophole or tip with minimizing the cost of sending things to the U.S. via Canada Post. :/

 

[TerryM]

Qualex at Wal-Mart

I cannot believe how utterly stupid the people who run Qualex are, and they are to be blamed for much of Qualex's failure. They never promoted what services Qualex offered. They had a drop box at Wal-Mart which never even mentioned the Qualex name -- let alone all the developing and print formats they offered. Just today I talked to the technician who runs the Wal-Mart Photo Lab for the past 15 years, and she didn't even know that Qualex developed 120 and Movie Formats like Super8 and 16mm! So, for the past 15 years, anyone enquiring about developing 120 or Super8 would have been told that it's not available! Is it a wonder why so many Super8 users quit. This is Qualex's fault for not being complete in promoting their business, and that's why they lost so much business. Wal-Mart ended its relationship with Qualex a year ago, and they don't use Fuji in Canada. So, Super8 and 120 users are out of luck. Kodak is the loser in this. A simple sheet of paper on the Qualex Drop Box would have told people what services they offered.

 

[Ektagraphic]

The end is coming near .....MARCH 27,2009

 

[Ektagraphic]

1) Does this mean the end of those nice Kodak boxes and mounts?

Yes this does mean the end of the Kodak boxes and mounts...I asked Dwayne's if it was possible for me to sill get them in these mounts and boxes when I mail direct and they said no. I enjoyed them. Back to the black plastic "coffin" boxes and the stand old slide mount (that are not that bad)

 

[Sirius Glass]

The end is coming near .....MARCH 27,2009

I am waiting as fast as I can!

Steve

 

[accozzaglia]

Good heavens. What's more important to you: the image or the slide mount?

Yes this does mean the end of the Kodak boxes and mounts...I asked Dwayne's if it was possible for me to sill get them in these mounts and boxes when I mail direct and they said no. I enjoyed them. Back to the black plastic "coffin" boxes and the stand old slide mount (that are not that bad)

 

[BobNewYork]

I cannot believe how utterly stupid the people who run Qualex are, and they are to be blamed for much of Qualex's failure. They never promoted what services Qualex offered. They had a drop box at Wal-Mart which never even mentioned the Qualex name -- let alone all the developing and print formats they offered. Just today I talked to the technician who runs the Wal-Mart Photo Lab for the past 15 years, and she didn't even know that Qualex developed 120 and Movie Formats like Super8 and 16mm! So, for the past 15 years, anyone enquiring about developing 120 or Super8 would have been told that it's not available! Is it a wonder why so many Super8 users quit. This is Qualex's fault for not being complete in promoting their business, and that's why they lost so much business. Wal-Mart ended its relationship with Qualex a year ago, and they don't use Fuji in Canada. So, Super8 and 120 users are out of luck. Kodak is the loser in this. A simple sheet of paper on the Qualex Drop Box would have told people what services they offered.

As I understand it Qualex marketed Wally World 'cos they thought they'd get a lot of business out of it. WM got ridiculous prices on chemicals and paper for their mini-labs - as well as free tech assist from Noritsu. WM had no interest in pushing Qualex services and so never advised their staff. In the meantime Qualex was so pleased to have landed WM that they promptly dumped all the smaller, specialist stores who'd been customers for years. Don't know how true it was but I heard rumours that Qualex had started re-marketing all the "little" guys they'd dropped - somewhat unsuccessfully I imagine!

Bob H

 

[Ektagraphic]

Good heavens. What's more important to you: the image or the slide mount?

The image is much more important but I just enjoyed the mounts too. I love every aspect of slides.

 

[nickrapak]

Why are people berating Wal-Mart in a Qualex thread? Wal-Mart uses Fujicolor processing and Fuji Frontier systems. I cannot remember a time when Wal-Mart used Kodak/Qualex services. AFAIK, it was always Fuji.

Of course, if you're talking about Wal-Mart Canada, I have no clue what service they use(d).

 

[Ektagraphic]

I have never used them, but all of my local WalMarts have stopped developing film in house. It all has to be sent out.

 

[BobNewYork]

Why are people berating Wal-Mart in a Qualex thread? Wal-Mart uses Fujicolor processing and Fuji Frontier systems. I cannot remember a time when Wal-Mart used Kodak/Qualex services. AFAIK, it was always Fuji.

Of course, if you're talking about Wal-Mart Canada, I have no clue what service they use(d).

Perhaps it was regional. Around these here parts it was Kodak / Noritsu.

Bob H

 

[TerryM]

As I understand it Qualex marketed Wally World 'cos they thought they'd get a lot of business out of it. WM got ridiculous prices on chemicals and paper for their mini-labs - as well as free tech assist from Noritsu. WM had no interest in pushing Qualex services and so never advised their staff. In the meantime Qualex was so pleased to have landed WM that they promptly dumped all the smaller, specialist stores who'd been customers for years. Don't know how true it was but I heard rumours that Qualex had started re-marketing all the "little" guys they'd dropped - somewhat unsuccessfully I imagine!

This is an appalling story, and is a warning to any business wanting to get into bed with Wal-Mart. The old adage 'don't put all your eggs into one basket' applies to dealing with Wal-Mart. Qualex was pretty stupid to vest themselves mostly with Wal-Mart who dumped them like a hot potato. I'm currently trying to find a buyer for Qualex to hopefully save this important company. Without Qualex, Super8 and small-scale independent Super16 users will be seriously harmed, and may have to quit Film.

 

[BobNewYork]

This is an appalling story, and is a warning to any business wanting to get into bed with Wal-Mart. The old adage 'don't put all your eggs into one basket' applies to dealing with Wal-Mart. Qualex was pretty stupid to vest themselves mostly with Wal-Mart who dumped them like a hot potato. I'm currently trying to find a buyer for Qualex to hopefully save this important company. Without Qualex, Super8 and small-scale independent Super16 users will be seriously harmed, and may have to quit Film.

Yup - the list of companies that got screwed this way is long and growing. Being a bit of a conspiracist, I really wouldn't be surprised if dumping the small guys, (mainly specialist photo stores) wasn't part of the deal.

Wait 'til the Revolution!! See you at the barricades !!

Bob H