Kodak's New 4x5 Film Packaging!

pentaxuser said:

What you have said, Matt, about the economics of Kodak bulk rolls v cassettes may be right but my point was my post and your reply involves both of us and others speculating on the subject without insider knowledge. I just think that we deserve better and clearer answers than we are getting from Kodak with what appears to me to be bland and meaningless phrases when asked about limited production runs for P3200 and bulk rolls.

Like Anon Ymous, I'll leave it at that

pentaxuser

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Maybe we're not getting the answers because many of us nay-sayers are right? There is NO good reason. I'm speculating Eastman Kodak doesn't really want to mess with the piddly-fiddly still photo film market and hence socks it to Kodak Alaris who then has to in turn sock it to us. Also, Eastman Kodak can dictate exactly what they want to produce, or for them, be bothered with and Kodak Alaris is at their mercy. Ah Hell, who knows? All I know is I'll continue to use Ilford 'cause I'm toooooo tight to pay more than I thing I should on something like TMY2 when I'm still not sure about it.

Another aspect that I can't recall anyone addressing are tax implications on business practices. Several decades ago I was partner in a small product manufacturing company. The quantities of raw parts or partially completed assemblies versus finished product had huge profit/loss implications due to vastly different "taxation value" between the two categories. That balance easily drove us from loss to profit, which we could easily control, depending on whether we sat on parts or sat on product inventory. Do we have any tax attorneys or accountants who can venture an educated guess on how this aspect applies to Kodak and Kodak Amaris or film prices? It may be another part of the picture that is "not insignificant".

John Wiegerink said:

Maybe we're not getting the answers because many of us nay-sayers are right? There is NO good reason. I'm speculating Eastman Kodak doesn't really want to mess with the piddly-fiddly still photo film market and hence socks it to Kodak Alaris who then has to in turn sock it to us. Also, Eastman Kodak can dictate exactly what they want to produce, or for them, be bothered with and Kodak Alaris is at their mercy. Ah Hell, who knows? All I know is I'll continue to use Ilford 'cause I'm toooooo tight to pay more than I thing I should on something like TMY2 when I'm still not sure about it.

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Ha... you may be right. For me, though, I'm still willing to pay the price to use the Kodak products that get me the photographic results I desire.

pentaxuser said:

...I just think that we deserve better and clearer answers than we are getting from Kodak...

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"We" (the public, film users, APUG posters, etc.) don't deserve any answers from Kodak. We want them.

Similarly, Kodak doesn't deserve to make any sales of still film products to "us." It wants them. Each party approaches the situation in whatever way it deems appropriate. Then the market decides whether those products and/or Kodak continue to exist. Again, simple supply and demand.

Sal Santamaura said:

"We" (the public, film users, APUG posters, etc.) don't deserve any answers from Kodak. We want them.

Similarly, Kodak doesn't deserve to make any sales of still film products to "us." It wants them. Each party approaches the situation in whatever way it deems appropriate. Then the market decides whether those products and/or Kodak continue to exist. Again, simple supply and demand.

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I have said this before, on other topics and other forums, when I was younger it seemed that companies, big and small, would bend over backwards to either get or keep a customer. Nowadays there seems to be very little bending to keep customers, but much more to get them. Customer relations are nearly non-existent in some companies. Yes Sal, I'm sending my own message, but does anybody but me care? Simple case of the fox below the cliff. Don't worry, there will be more lemmings coming shortly.

I've been boycotting Kodak for close to 40 years so what they do has less than no impact on me. Customer service was crappy 40 years ago and it seems nothing has changed.

To a certain extent John, I think the "retention of customers" vs. "acquisition of customers" issue is a function of size - and by size, I mean numbers of employees.
When my Dad worked for Canadian Kodak/Kodak Canada, George Eastman's hierarchy was part of the culture of the Company:
1st - customers;
2nd - employees;
3rd - shareholders,
but I'd hazard a guess that Canadian Kodak/Kodak Canada alone was throughout most of the time Dad was there (1947 - 1983) larger than the sum total of all current employees of both Kodak Alaris and Eastman Kodak.
Everybody in the "film" business is running really, really lean. And things like customer service are incredibly challenging when you are small, but have business worldwide.

10 sheet boxes? they have been selling 10 sheet boxes since maybe before the 1970s
same old, same old ...

Eric Rose said:

I've been boycotting Kodak for close to 40 years so what they do has less than no impact on me. Customer service was crappy 40 years ago and it seems nothing has changed.

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If you or the Kodak dealer you dealt through had a problem with Kodachrome or Ektachrome development or a Kodak equipment repair in the North Vancouver lab Eric, my father's entire department was there to help solve it. That was what he and his fairly large staff did all day.

Matt.
I understand how it was when your father was there and that's what I was referring to when I stated my childhood recollection of companies back in the 50's when I grew up. I do know that George Eastman was a super cutthroat businessman and he'd cut the legs right out from underneath you if you had something he wanted and wouldn't deal with him. He knew which side his bread was buttered on and coddled the buying public to insure future sales. Old George has got to be rolling over in his grave as I peck this post out. Poor George!

MattKing said:

If you or the Kodak dealer you dealt through had a problem with Kodachrome or Ektachrome development or a Kodak equipment repair in the North Vancouver lab Eric, my father's entire department was there to help solve it. That was what he and his fairly large staff did all day.

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hi matt

not to gripe or pile on being cranky ..
but when i used to call the professionalphotogrpahy division
there was 1 person i could count on to help me out, his name was dale, he was fantastic, but
the other people there gave me bad advice
and then when my film was almost all ruined because of their bad advice ( told me to use the wrong developer )
i was told to throw it all out. i had to go to someone else to be told which of
KODAK'S OWN PRODUCTS i should use to fix my problem.
when i called to talk to the supervisor and tell him what happened and what i did to fix my problem
( incase others given the same bum-advice were going to call ) i was told
that there was no one there with "XYZ" name who worked there and i never spoke with anyone at KODAK.
i guess the MIB got ahold of them.
totally bizarre ...

Matt I sure your dad and his team did an excellent job. My beef wasn't with film developing. It was an issue with the local rep and those further up the food chain.

Eric Rose said:

Matt I sure your dad and his team did an excellent job. My beef wasn't with film developing. It was an issue with the local rep and those further up the food chain.

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I understand that Eric. My point was that Kodak Canada had whole departments of people assigned to the task of customer service. And that is only possible if organizations are large and profitable and well resourced - not like the current "lean" organizations.

Well even when it was "well resourced" it sucked. At least from a pro's perspective. Maybe they looked after the amateurs better. I found they had a circle the wagons mentality when it was pointed out to them some severe issues that not just I experienced. Kodak cost me a lot of money. Fuji, Agfa and Ilford got all my business for many years and they treated me really well. If there was ever a problem with product they would react immediately and make it right. Not try and sweep it under the rug and then protect their rears. Like I said it happened 40 years ago so not really relevant today. But Kodak will still never enter my cameras or darkroom in any manner. Not that they give a crap, or ever did.