Kodak's breathtaking film prices increases (at least) in Japan

[Tom1956]

If Kodak runs up prices like this, they're done. I certainly won't be buying.

 

[Simonh82]

This could be the reason Kodak spun off its film division during bankruptcy proceedings to Kodak Alaris. They didn't see it as a long term profit center compared to the non-film divisions they kept. All of this is not a good sign for film users. The higher film prices go, the more people that will switch to digital. Then less buyers will raise film prices again in an endless spiral that leads where?

Eastman Kodak sold the film division to the UK pension plan because they were the biggest creditor and the main obstacle to them emerging from bankruptcy. The film division was making a reasonable profit along side the other bits like photo printing kiosks etc.

Kodak Alaris owned by the UKPP have said they will continue to sell film whilst is is profitable (as has been noted) and I would be surprised if they hiked their prices as much as has been speculated as this would make them completely uncompetitive. The pension plan want a guaranteed income over many years to pay their members pensions. Killing off film with massive price hikes would seem like an odd decision in this context.

Kodak Alaris have contracts to buy their film from Eastman Kodak, which is why they have been able to keep the same film line but Eastman Kodak are no longer pulling the strings. That being said, EK may have hiked their prices to KA meaning an increase to the end user. Also as KA is now owned by a pension plan (the ultimate bean counters) they may be trying to squeeze every last penny of profit out of it. I wouldn't be surprised to see significant price rises but I would be very surprised to see 80-120% here in the UK or in the US.

Time will tell but for the mean time, Ilford haven't increased their prices since Feb 2013 as Simon Galley mentioned recently. Their recent reduction in the price of FP4+ and Cooltone RC in the US shows a different approach to their customer base.

 

[Xmas]

Maybe Kodak's film making and coating machines will end up in China one of these days? JW

EK would probably get more for the IPR. Impossible took over a Polariod factory? Moving manufacture difficult, manufacture on different machines difficult.
There is no future volume prediction for profit for the investment needed.
Harrow UK can coat, as some of their other factories may be able to also, but KA won't see any incentive for low volume film instead they see it (profit) coming to an end.
Kodak made bad strategic mistakes in past...

 

[DREW WILEY]

I'm just curious how many people on this forum are so young that they don't really understand the meaning of "inflation" yet? I'm just glad I've
got a lot of Kodak film in the freezer right now, which was bought at a much better price.

 

[Jaf-Photo]

Well, if you raise the price by 1 percent in a year, it's inflation.

If you raise it by 100 percent, it's incompetence, extorsion or something worse.

 

[Xmas]

Kodak Alaris have contracts to buy their film from Eastman Kodak, which is why they have been able to keep the same film line but Eastman Kodak are no longer pulling the strings. That being said, EK may have hiked their prices to KA meaning an increase to the end user.

EK put up cine film and cine process material prices 15% (from memory) Jan 14, citing increased overheads from reduced sales. Won't have helped Bollywood...

KA should have contractual agreements on hikes as part of above mentioned bankrupt exit.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...Maybe Kodak's film making and coating machines will end up in China one of these days?...

If they do, it will be in pieces along with a lot of other US scrap metal.

 

[wblynch]

I don't mind inflation or price increases at all; as long as they increase our wages.

Of course that never happens anymore...

 

[JW PHOTO]

I don't mind inflation or price increases at all; as long as they increase our wages.

Of course that never happens anymore...

You're right Bill and I just read an interesting article on this "These charts show how millions of U.S. jobs pay less now than they did in 1999". Pretty sad I'd say, since there is no attempt to even consider wages being uplifted to counter inflation. JW

 

[Tom1956]

I don't mind inflation or price increases at all; as long as they increase our wages.

Of course that never happens anymore...

I wonder why that is?

 

[DREW WILEY]

Somebody has to support all these billionaire CEO's. Gotta do our civic duty.

 

[Roger Cole]

I'm just curious how many people on this forum are so young that they don't really understand the meaning of "inflation" yet? I'm just glad I've
got a lot of Kodak film in the freezer right now, which was bought at a much better price.

Oh I lived through the "stagflation" of the 70s as well as other inflationary cycles. I understand it, but there isn't that much of it in the general economy yet. The only thing that's been keeping us from (much worse in the longer term) deflation has been ... well I don't want to get political and you don't have to like it so let's just call it "creative monetary policy." There's certainly no inflation in the general economy to justify sudden 80-100% hikes in ANYTHING.

 

[Roger Cole]

You're right Bill and I just read an interesting article on this "These charts show how millions of U.S. jobs pay less now than they did in 1999". Pretty sad I'd say, since there is no attempt to even consider wages being uplifted to counter inflation. JW

And dramatically less than they did thirty years before that. Add in the fact that we have so much other crap [sic] to spend it on now - no one had $100 a month cable bills or the cell phone bills or even the backwards-inflation-adjusted equivalent back then - and it's no wonder disposable income seems so much less. It is so much less. My generation (I'm 50) was the first to have to run faster than their parents just to be in the same place, and later ones have it even worse.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Inflation can be like our earthquakes out here. The pressure just keeps building up until the earth suddenly snaps. Raw materials, petrochemicals in particular (used in both dyes and film base) have gone up dramatically in the past few years. Some of this is a raw materials issue, some a distribution issue, some due to newer enviro controls, etc. A bigger factor is competition. Maybe Kodak/Alaris is price structuring b&w film on an analogous model to how they're handling color film. Awhile back Kodak and Fuji were in a price war. No longer. Kodak has ceded chrome film to Fuji, and Fuji has largely ceded color neg film to Kodak. Now they each have a semi-monopoly and can charge what the market will bear. But compared to the Kodak sheet film in my freezer, things haven't gone up 100%. More like 150%.

 

[omaha]

I haven't read this whole thread...and a good thing too judging by the direction it seems to be taking.

Personally, my take on this is that if you want to shoot film, then you're going to have to get used to a steady diet of price increases. Don't like it? Shoot digital. Or evangelize like crazy and convert ten photographers back to film.

But the volume just isn't there.

This isn't going to be "big bad corporation screwing the customer". Its going to be "tiny, niche provider trying to eek out a profit to keep the doors open".

 

[RattyMouse]

I'm just curious how many people on this forum are so young that they don't really understand the meaning of "inflation" yet? I'm just glad I've
got a lot of Kodak film in the freezer right now, which was bought at a much better price.

Do you know what hyper inflation is?

 

[RattyMouse]

And dramatically less than they did thirty years before that. Add in the fact that we have so much other crap [sic] to spend it on now - no one had $100 a month cable bills or the cell phone bills or even the backwards-inflation-adjusted equivalent back then - and it's no wonder disposable income seems so much less. It is so much less. My generation (I'm 50) was the first to have to run faster than their parents just to be in the same place, and later ones have it even worse.

Cable bills and cell phone bills of $100 a month or more are leeches. Never had 'em, never will.

 

[RattyMouse]

I haven't read this whole thread...and a good thing too judging by the direction it seems to be taking.

Personally, my take on this is that if you want to shoot film, then you're going to have to get used to a steady diet of price increases. Don't like it? Shoot digital. Or evangelize like crazy and convert ten photographers back to film.

But the volume just isn't there.

This isn't going to be "big bad corporation screwing the customer". Its going to be "tiny, niche provider trying to eek out a profit to keep the doors open".

Nonsense. 120% price increases are just absurd. You want to kill off film photography, raise prices by 120% a few times. That will do it with a short and quick death.

 

[Tom1956]

I just got back from town where I went to the CVS drug store to buy a mothers day card. I looked over to the right of the cashier counter and the C-41 machine was gone. I asked how long ago that happened, and the lady said 2 months ago. I thought about this thread as I walked out, shaking my head. They've pulled out their film equipment and their tobacco inventory. So what have they got left but drugs and overprice cosmetics? Essentially the company has given themselves over to the health insurance business. They only need the warm bodies to walk in with prescriptions. Something is awry in the direction things are heading.

 

[Roger Cole]

Nonsense. 120% price increases are just absurd. You want to kill off film photography, raise prices by 120% a few times. That will do it with a short and quick death.

Exactly. It isn't increases in general that have people incensed, it's the magnitude. Kodak is already premium priced, in the US anyway. They will simply outprice themselves compared to the competition with jumps of this magnitude, if they in fact show up here. (And at least for black and white. There's really just no competition for color neg outside of some consumer 35mm stuff from Fuji.)

 

[Roger Cole]

I just got back from town where I went to the CVS drug store to buy a mothers day card. I looked over to the right of the cashier counter and the C-41 machine was gone. I asked how long ago that happened, and the lady said 2 months ago. I thought about this thread as I walked out, shaking my head. They've pulled out their film equipment and their tobacco inventory. So what have they got left but drugs and overprice cosmetics? Essentially the company has given themselves over to the health insurance business. They only need the warm bodies to walk in with prescriptions. Something is awry in the direction things are heading.

Memory cards, probably.

 

[Tom1956]

Exactly. It isn't increases in general that have people incensed, it's the magnitude. Kodak is already premium priced, in the US anyway. They will simply outprice themselves compared to the competition with jumps of this magnitude, if they in fact show up here. (And at least for black and white. There's really just no competition for color neg outside of some consumer 35mm stuff from Fuji.)

I'm afraid high finance has reached a point where the bean counters are not interested in whether they can get enough beans from the business they're in business to do. It's a lot easier to just run up the prices on the product you're selling and invest whatever profits in the Chinese stock market. They don't actually care about their own product.

 

[RattyMouse]

Exactly. It isn't increases in general that have people incensed, it's the magnitude. Kodak is already premium priced, in the US anyway. They will simply outprice themselves compared to the competition with jumps of this magnitude, if they in fact show up here. (And at least for black and white. There's really just no competition for color neg outside of some consumer 35mm stuff from Fuji.)

In my business, if we don't want a customer, we don't tell them to go away, we raise their prices until they go away on their own. Kodak has no interest in selling film anymore so they are likely doing the same.

Funny enough, some customers never go away no matter how much we raise the price!!

 

[pentaxuser]

In my business, if we don't want a customer, we don't tell them to go away, we raise their prices until they go away on their own. Kodak has no interest in selling film anymore so they are likely doing the same.

/QUOTE]

If I were to conclude from the above quote that your marriage to Kodak has irretrievably broken down, would this be the right conclusion? I ask this question because, based on your answer, I will desist from casting any more seed as it is falling on stony ground and is both wasting seed and is maybe even seen by you as a form of poking a stick into a wasps nest which never ends well for person poking or the wasps

pentaxuser