Kodak Vision3 35mm supplier in Europe (not UK)?

Azkaltia · May 23, 2021

Any one have any experience with this Finnish outfit (mutascan)? They sell 60m to 305m lengths of 35mm Vision3 in a variety of formats (8mm, 16mm, 35mm).

I've been looking for a Kodak 35mm colour cine-film reseller (Kodak Vision3 250d, 500t etc.) in Europe, as my previous one is in the UK (frame24ltd) and ordering from them is (thanks to Brexit) increasingly expensive.

Course, as with everything in film, only sure way to know is by ordering some and testing...

cmacd123 · May 24, 2021

https://www.kodak.com/en/motion/page/worldwide-commercial-dealers#France would be the place to ask.

brbo · May 25, 2021

Azkaltia said:
I've been looking for a Kodak 35mm colour cine-film reseller (Kodak Vision3 250d, 500t etc.) in Europe, as my previous one is in the UK (frame24ltd) and ordering from them is (thanks to Brexit) increasingly expensive.

I really wonder what Brexit changed for you that would make a 270 EUR deal from Mutascan better than 195 EUR from Frame24 (both prices w/o VAT for 400' of Vision3)?

radiant · May 25, 2021

Azkaltia said:
Any one have any experience with this Finnish outfit (mutascan)? They sell 60m to 305m lengths of 35mm Vision3 in a variety of formats (8mm, 16mm, 35mm).

I'm sure they have good reputation. Basically their customers are commercial based so I would assume they know what they do

Azkaltia · May 25, 2021

brbo said:
I really wonder what Brexit changed for you that would make a 270 EUR deal from Mutascan better than 195 EUR from Frame24 (both prices w/o VAT for 400' of Vision3)?

Oh I agree the UK seller is cheaper even once VAT is added. My concern is you get hit with "variable" courrier surcharges (i.e processing fees) for importing from the UK to continental Europe + customs duty. I've given up trying to figure out the customs duty charges as they seem to change every week.

AgX · May 25, 2021

cmacd123 said:
https://www.kodak.com/en/motion/page/worldwide-commercial-dealers#France would be the place to ask.

The OP seems to be interested in short lengths too. This reduces the choice of dealers in Europe.

Azkaltia · May 25, 2021

AgX said:
The OP seems to be interested in short lengths too. This reduces the choice of dealers in Europe.

Agreed! At 13.33 euros ($16.31 USD) per Cinestill 800 (35mm) roll (shipping not included) buying short(er) rolls makes sense. Film ain't cheap

AgX · May 25, 2021

We should not overlook that european movie productions are fewer than US productions, and then again those made on film again a minuscule part. Thus there are lesser short ends available in Europe from the start.

cmacd123 · May 25, 2021

AgX said:
The OP seems to be interested in short lengths too. This reduces the choice of dealers in Europe.

if they are looking for short ends, only place I know that sells them is https://www.frame24.co.uk/online-store/35mm-Clearance-Stock-c27284143 BUT they are no longer in Europe. I don't know how much hassle it is for someone in Europe to buy from dealer in the former European county. I have seem some folks in the states say they have ends, but it was on a "contact us" terms

Azkaltia · May 26, 2021

cmacd123 said:
if they are looking for short ends, only place I know that sells them is https://www.frame24.co.uk/online-store/35mm-Clearance-Stock-c27284143 BUT they are no longer in Europe. I don't know how much hassle it is for someone in Europe to buy from dealer in the former European county. I have seem some folks in the states say they have ends, but it was on a "contact us" terms

Going by their Ebay page they list £61.92 GBP of duties for shipping to Europe. Not that I trust Ebay's calculation as it's been off (and way off!) in the past. Presumably that amount does not include any courrier fees for processing the (admittedly byzantine) rules regarding whichever tariff bulk film is under.
A poster up-above suggests I contact Kodak, which makes sense if I were ordering in anything like real cinematography quantities. I like to think I shoot a lot of film but compared to the amount of bulk film needed for an actual short film, it's peanuts...! The funny part is I've had little if any difficulty getting all the chems for homebrew ECN-2 (i.e not a premade kit) shipped from all over Europe, including the UK. Go figure.

pbromaghin · May 26, 2021

A 400ft reel of Visions 3 (as sold in the US) comes out to about $4 per 36 exposure roll. Freestyle has a home processing kit that comes to another $4 per roll. All in all a screaming deal on high quality color film, if you're willing to make the effort. How do European costs compare? Does anybody sell processing kits or offer to process it in less than movie-making quantities?

Azkaltia · May 26, 2021

In my (French) experience, so far I've ordered about 5 or 6 C-41 kits, all from online retailers or Ebay. Most from some other country, either Germany's Fotoimpex or Axel Color in Italy. They are easy to get, even US-made one's like Cinestill's CS-41. And New Tetenal seems to be doing a brisk business with their smaller kits too. I've seen kits for ECN-2 on Etsy that seem reasonably priced too, though I've never ordered any ECN-2 kit.
As for cost, it's hard to compare prices between Europe and the US as the VAT rate anywhere in Europe (even post-brexit UK) is twice, thrice whatever is the highest rate over there. I'm guessing that Canadian's have the same gripe...
As for say a 400ft reel of 35mm Vision 3, I'd say that's about 327 euros (~$398 USD) so at least a $1.50 more per roll (assuming an average of 18, 36 frame rolls per 100ft - which might be generous!). As mentioned, if you like color film, cine film is a no-brainer. Then again, no-one shooting film is doing it to save money

cmacd123 · May 26, 2021

Azkaltia said:
Going by their Ebay page they list £61.92 GBP of duties for shipping to Europe. Not that I trust Ebay's calculation as it's been off (and way off!) in the past. Presumably that amount does not include any courrier fees for processing the (admittedly byzantine) rules regarding whichever tariff bulk film is under.

looking at the page, (and actualy changing the URL from .fr to .ca ) it seems that the listing is using the Ebay "Global shipping program" where the seller sends the item to a Pitney Bowes warehouse in their own country, and Pitney Bowes arranges to pay the duty/taxes/shipping and hands it off to a delivery firm in the destination country.

looking at it on the ebay.ca page, they show it as 205GBP, or approximately 349.70 CDN$ - shipping to Canada would be GBP 24.34 (approx. C $41.52) and duty and taxes would be GBP 45.24 (they let you figure out the CDN for yourself) - where I have ordered stuff from the states, these charges are "all In" and the package is delivered often by the same folks who do packages for Amazon. although you don't find out who until the package is delivered. (the ebay.fr page detects that I am in canada and shows the canadian prices.)

my guess is that ebay went with this system as they were getting pressure over collection of taxes in various places. Pitney Bowes would be the importer of record.

Azkaltia · May 27, 2021

cmacd123 said:
looking at it on the ebay.ca page, they show it as 205GBP, or approximately 349.70 CDN$ - shipping to Canada would be GBP 24.34 (approx. C $41.52) and duty and taxes would be GBP 45.24 (they let you figure out the CDN for yourself) - where I have ordered stuff from the states, these charges are "all In" and the package is delivered often by the same folks who do packages for Amazon. although you don't find out who until the package is delivered. (the ebay.fr page detects that I am in canada and shows the canadian prices.)

Interesting that you pay "only" £45.24 in duty/taxes. They list it at at £61.92 for me. Les joies du Brexit I guess.

Craig75 · May 27, 2021

Azkaltia said:
Going by their Ebay page they list £61.92 GBP of duties for shipping to Europe. Not that I trust Ebay's calculation as it's been off (and way off!) in the past. Presumably that amount does not include any courrier fees for processing the (admittedly byzantine) rules regarding whichever tariff bulk film is under.
A poster up-above suggests I contact Kodak, which makes sense if I were ordering in anything like real cinematography quantities. I like to think I shoot a lot of film but compared to the amount of bulk film needed for an actual short film, it's peanuts...! The funny part is I've had little if any difficulty getting all the chems for homebrew ECN-2 (i.e not a premade kit) shipped from all over Europe, including the UK. Go figure.

If you are paying custom fees through Ebay - ebay collects the tax and pays the UK government. The courier only delivers the package and does none of the tax. So there should be no courier fees.

That is how I understand it and that is how it has worked when I have bought from the USA..

(that could be wrong though)

cmacd123 · May 27, 2021

Azkaltia said:
Interesting that you pay "only" £45.24 in duty/taxes. They list it at at £61.92 for me. Les joies du Brexit I guess.

if there system detects that it is a US product, it would not have a tariff under USMCA so the Government would get 13% HST (similar to VAT) If they think it is a British Product, their would be a tarif at whatever the rate is for "film" from Brittan. then HST calculated on the price plus tariff. I understand the UK is working on getting a trade agreement between them selves and Canada similar to the one that they walked away from between the EU and Canada.

Azkaltia · May 28, 2021

I'd be interested to know if I ordered directly from a US supplier what the tarif would be. Obviously shipping would be more, but £61 of tarif just for ordering from the UK seems expensive and I'm not sure if from the US it would be significantly more?

eatfrog · May 28, 2021

Azkaltia said:
I'd be interested to know if I ordered directly from a US supplier what the tarif would be. Obviously shipping would be more, but £61 of tarif just for ordering from the UK seems expensive and I'm not sure if from the US it would be significantly more?

I'm pretty sure these are decided on an EU level so they should be the same no matter which NON-EU country the order originates from?

Craig75 · May 28, 2021

Azkaltia said:
I'd be interested to know if I ordered directly from a US supplier what the tarif would be. Obviously shipping would be more, but £61 of tarif just for ordering from the UK seems expensive and I'm not sure if from the US it would be significantly more?

In uk we would pay £50 duty (20% sales tax) on a £250 order for buying within UK so £61 for EU export sounds about right. Remember you should not pay UK sales tax.

AgX · May 28, 2021

Azkaltia said:
I'd be interested to know if I ordered directly from a US supplier what the tarif would be.

All customs tariffs within the EU are standardized. Moreover they typically are the same for any country of origin. The tariffs are public, you can look them up yourself per product.
The only difference is in the VAT, which varies between the EU-countries, though typically not much.

lantau · May 28, 2021

Azkaltia said:
I'd be interested to know if I ordered directly from a US supplier what the tarif would be. Obviously shipping would be more, but £61 of tarif just for ordering from the UK seems expensive and I'm not sure if from the US it would be significantly more?

You can buy V3 rolls from BH Photo. They have a VAT and customs option for shipping. I.e. the system will calculate and invoice you for it and the stuff comes directly to your door. I looked into it once, though never bought from them so far. I have enough Vision in my freezer

I may be interested in print film for printing Vision3 negs, eventually. But that is special order and for those they don't offer this service. Another problem with print film is that Kodak sells 1000ft rolls only. That is much more than I'll ever need but still have to pay for.

I have recently ordered from Digikey (electronics) and they offer this precleared service using UPS. It took two or three days from Minnesota to Germany.

It's great for businesses, which are large enough to have the volume for offering these international services at a low price. Shipping was free for my $100 order. Mouser in Texas does the same. UK businesses with large sales volumes to the EU could do the same, and will. It's the smaller business which are left in the dirt, as usual.

Azkaltia · May 28, 2021

lantau said:
You can buy V3 rolls from BH Photo. They have a VAT and customs option for shipping. I.e. the system will calculate and invoice you for it and the stuff comes directly to your door.

That's really interesting. I checked the B&H website and they gave me a quote for $432.59 USD (€354.76 in euros). The breakdown is $312.95 for the 400ft roll + $94.98 for duty/tax + $24.66 for shipping to France. Seems accurate duty-wise too.
So in euros it's €354.76 if ordered from the US (Kodak Vision 3 35mm 500T as a 400ft roll) or if I ordered from that outfit in Finland (same film at 122m (400ft), €332,67 (+ shipping). Finland is probably the furthest in Europe you can get from here, though still closer then New York. Funny how it's essentially the same price!

cmacd123 · May 28, 2021

Just for fun, call up Kodak and see what they want for a roll direct

pbromaghin · May 29, 2021

Looking on eBay, recans and short ends are about 30% (or more) higher on a per-foot basis than fresh 400-ft rolls from B&H.

Kyon Thinh · May 30, 2021

I miss those days, where I can get short end and recanned Vision 3 for cheap. Got 1000ft 250D from Malavita production for 100 eur shipped to Germany...

Kodak Vision3 35mm supplier in Europe (not UK)?

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