Kodak Tri-X in Rodinal & HC110 Comparison

If you've been following my "Tri-X in Rodinal Failure" thread, these are the results.

Camera: Nikon F5
Lens: Nikon 50mm 1.8 G
Aperture Priority Mode
F/8
Center weighted TTL metering
Focus point was fixed on the left edge of the clipboard for all photos
Tripod

Rodinal Development: 1:50 dilution
1st Roll - 68 degrees, 11 minutes, agitation first 30 seconds, 5 inversions at the beginning of each subsequent minute.
2nd Roll - 68 degrees, 13 minutes, same agitation schedule
3rd Roll - 68 degrees, 15 minutes, same agitation schedule

HC110 Development: Dilution "B" 1:31
1st Roll - 68 degrees, 3 minutes 45 seconds per Kodaks instructions, same agitation as above
2nd Roll - 68 degrees, 5 minutes 36 seconds, same agitation schedule (5.6 minutes was obtained by averaging Kodaks 3.75 minute suggestion, and the unofficial dilution "H" suggestion of double dilution "B" times.

Scanning:
Epson 4990 with 35mm film strip holder
All auto functions turned off
Only adjustment was to black point and white point in histogram

I have shooting notes, and development notes for each roll written down that can be scanned if need be.d

The entire album can be viewed here. https://flic.kr/s/aHsmNjJP2n

R11+1EV by Christopher Coy, on Flickr.

R11BoxSpeed by Christopher Coy, on Flickr

R11-1EV by Christopher Coy, on Flickr

R13+1EV by Christopher Coy, on Flickr

R13BoxSpeed by Christopher Coy, on Flickr

R13-1EV by Christopher Coy, on Flickr

R15+1EV by Christopher Coy, on Flickr

R15BoxSpeed by Christopher Coy, on Flickr

R15-1EV by Christopher Coy, on Flickr

HC375+1EV by Christopher Coy, on Flickr

HC375BoxSpeed by Christopher Coy, on Flickr

HC375-1EV by Christopher Coy, on Flickr

HC536+1EV by Christopher Coy, on Flickr

HC536BoxSpeed by Christopher Coy, on Flickr

HC536-1EV by Christopher Coy, on Flickr

Interesting. Thanks for sharing your results.

EDIT: What colors are the towels in the box?

BradS said:

Interesting. Thanks for sharing your results.

EDIT: What colors are the towels in the box?

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There’s a gray card on top.

Christopher, although you haven’t asked... I’d be very happy with the Tri-X @ box & Rodinal 1:50 for 11minutes. Thanks for showing your work.

Good work Christopher. The ones at Kodak's official time in dil B look underdeveloped. That is what most folks expect, as it is undoubtedly a Kodak snafu. I would go with 6 mins for dilution B as a starting point. I hate part minutes less than .5 of a minute and tend to round up or down. Makes the maths easier too.

Two things worry me about your tests, the first is that that bright area on the top left which will be affect metering, and the second is changing light HC375BoxSpeed then the sun is out on the grass in HC375BoxSpeed. I think that's having too great an effect to really make the tests precise enough but it's getting you closer to the ballpark.

Ian

...I think the idea of texture (fluffy towels) your test target is a good idea, but they are unevenly lit because of the 'box'. Your target area is also much darker than it's background - there's a lot of veiling flare in your set up. It would be better using a really dark background - preferably in a studio where you can control the light. I think with really rigorous technique, people are more likely to spend time reading your article.

Ozxplorer said:

Christopher, although you haven’t asked... I’d be very happy with the Tri-X @ box & Rodinal 1:50 for 11minutes. Thanks for showing your work.

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Surprisingly, you're not the first person to choose that one. In my initial conversations with @MattKing he also chose that exposure/development combo.

Ian Grant said:

Two things worry me about your tests, the first is that that bright area on the top left which will be affect metering, and the second is changing light HC375BoxSpeed then the sun is out on the grass in HC375BoxSpeed. I think that's having too great an effect to really make the tests precise enough but it's getting you closer to the ballpark.

Ian

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The light changed only minimally. If I remember my notes correctly, that roll only changed from 1/80th of a second to 1/60th of a second. I have exposure notes. Additionally, everything was shot with center weighted metering. But its a moot point,because HC110 at 3.75 minutes is underdeveloped anyway.

Neil Grant said:

...I think the idea of texture (fluffy towels) your test target is a good idea, but they are unevenly lit because of the 'box'. Your target area is also much darker than it's background - there's a lot of veiling flare in your set up. It would be better using a really dark background - preferably in a studio where you can control the light. I think with really rigorous technique, people are more likely to spend time reading your article.

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Well, the scene was set up based on what I typically shoot. Since I don't normally shoot with studio strobes, this was a more accurate portrayal of what would end up on my negatives. Additionally, I really wasn't doing this experiment for anyone other than myself, so if someone doesn't feel the need to read the notes and look at the pictures, there are plenty of other threads that they can view. Or better, they can perform their own experiment.

The towels and the grey card is a good idea but I always thought from reading about testing in respect of finding your own personal film speed that open shade in a North facing location was the best area to take the pictures then develop at the maker's recommended time. Examine the negs. One should have the correct level of shadow detail i.e a dark textured cloth/towel still shows some texture. That one is the right speed. Then look at the highlights in the "right speed negative. If these are white with no discernible texture as in say a white towel then lower the development time. If the white towel looks grey rather than white increase your dev time.

David Allen amongst others here wrote a good and comprehensive test procedure. Worth researching it

pentaxuser

pentaxuser said:

.... that open shade in a North facing location was the best area to take the pictures then develop at the maker's recommended time.

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That's funny, because the box IS actually facing north, maybe a little NE, and I shot it under the shade between palm trees.

I think box speed in Rodinal at 11 minutes gives the best detail in both the shadows and the highlights. The upper left corner of each image is water so I consider that an "extreme" since the specular highlights are overly exaggerated.

There is a fantastic website that compares many films, with many developers:
http://www.fotoimport.no/filmtest/filmTriX.html
Tri-X developed in Rodinal and HC110 is also there. The site shows full-frame and detail results and densitometric graphs. It is mostly in Norwegian but some parts are available in English and the example images and graphs speak for themselves.
Doing your own testing can of course be fun and useful but since I found this site I rely on it for any film/developer combination that I can find there.

wow, lots of work! thanks for taking the time and sharing!