Kodak TRI-X 400 B/W Film - 100' Roll - $8.99 from Walmart.com?!

[wy2l]

"don't get the excitement about ripping off film suppliers over typos."

Please explain to me the difference between a sale and a typo.

 

[MattKing]

Up here, the law is complex (kind of).
Historically, most of the law originated from in person transactions. If you go up to a cash register with an item that has an incorrect (as in mistaken) price tag on it, are they obligated to sell you that item at that price? The legal answer is no. The price tag is considered to be an "invitation to treat", and your presenting the item and price tag to the cashier is considered to be the offer, which the business is entitled to refuse.
Here is where it gets more complex. The law doesn't want to hold retailers to a simple mistake. On the other hand, the law doesn't want retailers to be able to intentionally mislead, so there are provisions in place to prevent that.
Then we can add another complexity. Many retailers, including some retailer groups, have internal rules and policies designed to ensure accuracy in shelf pricing. Their policy is to honour the incorrect price tags (while generally sending some staff member scurrying back to correct the screw up, so others don't get the benefit of them).
Now lets overlay more complexity - the internet and advertising.
Retailers are still not entitled to intentionally mislead. But their internet presence is also considered to be an "invitation to treat". So they can correct errors by cancelling orders where the orders are based on typographical errors.
As "bait and switch" tactics are such a prevalent abuse of the advertising and internet world, there are provisions intended to deal with them. However, inadvertent error isn't what those provisions are intended to deal with.
Some retailers will, as a matter of policy, honour some or all errors. But that is a business decision, not a matter of law.

 

[pentaxuser]

Thanks for the summary of the law in Canada. That all makes sense to me. I can't imagine it being much if any different in the U.K.

pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

Thanks for the summary of the law in Canada. That all makes sense to me. I can't imagine it being much if any different in the U.K.

pentaxuser

Some of the earliest precedents were actually pre-confederation English law.

 

[faberryman]

Up here, the law is complex (kind of).
Historically, most of the law originated from in person transactions. If you go up to a cash register with an item that has an incorrect (as in mistaken) price tag on it, are they obligated to sell you that item at that price? The legal answer is no. The price tag is considered to be an "invitation to treat", and your presenting the item and price tag to the cashier is considered to be the offer, which the business is entitled to refuse.
Here is where it gets more complex. The law doesn't want to hold retailers to a simple mistake. On the other hand, the law doesn't want retailers to be able to intentionally mislead, so there are provisions in place to prevent that.
Then we can add another complexity. Many retailers, including some retailer groups, have internal rules and policies designed to ensure accuracy in shelf pricing. Their policy is to honour the incorrect price tags (while generally sending some staff member scurrying back to correct the screw up, so others don't get the benefit of them).
Now lets overlay more complexity - the internet and advertising.
Retailers are still not entitled to intentionally mislead. But their internet presence is also considered to be an "invitation to treat". So they can correct errors by cancelling orders where the orders are based on typographical errors.
As "bait and switch" tactics are such a prevalent abuse of the advertising and internet world, there are provisions intended to deal with them. However, inadvertent error isn't what those provisions are intended to deal with.
Some retailers will, as a matter of policy, honour some or all errors. But that is a business decision, not a matter of law.

The law is an ass, and I say that as a lawyer. When is the last time a bar code scanner invited you to negotiate instead of just beeping? Not saying an honest mistake shouldn't be correctable. Also not debating the ethics of taking advantage of an honest mistake.

 

[warden]

Please explain to me the difference between a sale and a typo.

If you look them up you'll find they mean different things.

 

[removed account4]

In customer lawsuits some judges have ruled that the advertiser must honor the advertised price while others have ruled otherwise.

from what i learned last night, there is no national policy on this, it is up to the attorneys general of each state to decide .
and as seen with the link i posted before, with the walmart case they just got blowback and that was about it. ( i'm guessing
wallys is used to blowback since they have gotten a bunch of it after they put main street out of business, ... and then
after all the "made in america" tags fall off revealing the "made in mexico" ( &c ) tags underneath and ... )
regarding the wrong price ... if the tables were turned and i purchased a car for $20,000 from a dealer and then
stopped payment on the check/ backcharged my credit card &c or i hired a window company
to install / replace all my windows and then i refused payment because of xyz reasons, i think i'd be in some hot water ...

i bought it figuring it was expired or damaged or there was something wrong with it. we have a local store that sells
stuft that "fell off the truck" ( was damaged, overstock from an out of business store &c ) and things are deep discount
all the time .. jackets / winter coats ( name brand ) that are like 80-90% off &c. and i am kind of disappointed
not that i didn't get 100feet for 10$ but because i can't get some damaged film for cheeps. im guessing it was supposed to
be a roll, not a bulk roll ...

 

[ic-racer]

This is how to sell film. Price it to move. It was a great example of how film manufacturers have priced themselves out of business. Don't blame low sales volume on lack of interest by film photographers.

 

[pentaxuser]

This is how to sell film. Price it to move. It was a great example of how film manufacturers have priced themselves out of business. Don't blame low sales volume on lack of interest by film photographers.

Well, on balance it would appear that nobody has arrived at this price to move the product. It was clearly a mistake

However it would help if you can expand on this "price it to move" It would appear you believe that film manufacturers' greed has resulted in prices that in fact is killing demand. If so, at what point will it dawn on them that they may go out of business? I take it that each manufacturer is making "excess profits". If so what might be the prices of different films that still allows the economist's "normal profit to be made.

Like everyone else I'd like to see analogue photography prices fall but I fear that it isn't as simple as saying to the manufacturers that they should stop being greedy and making excess profits

Your post may be "putting the cat amongst the pigeons" tactic to further stimulate discussion and this is fine but I think it fails if it is seen as just a provocative "throw away" line

pentaxuser

 

[Oren Grad]

From the "Walmart.com Terms of Use" page:
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

8. Placing an Order
...
B. Pricing Information; Availability

Walmart cannot confirm the price or availability of an item until after your order is placed. Pricing or availability errors may occur on the Walmart Sites or through Marketplace Retailers. The receipt of an order confirmation does not constitute our acceptance of an order or our confirmation of an offer to sell a Product. Walmart reserves the right to cancel any orders containing pricing or availability errors, with no further obligations to you, even after your receipt of an order confirmation or shipping notice from Walmart. Walmart may, at its discretion, either contact you for instructions or cancel your order and notify you of such cancellation.

 

[ic-racer]

Well, on balance it would appear that nobody has arrived at this price to move the product. It was clearly a mistake

If that is not the price, then yes, it is a big mistake. The product won't move. Clearly it is not because of lack of interest.

 

[1kgcoffee]

This is how to sell film. Price it to move. It was a great example of how film manufacturers have priced themselves out of business. Don't blame low sales volume on lack of interest by film photographers.

I don't think so. Film is plenty affordable for the amount that most of us shoot. Would you shoot 10x more if it were cheaper, and would this give high enough margins to manufacturers to continue production? Fact is there is a lack of interest because digital and most people wouldn't shoot it for free.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

I don't think so. Film is plenty affordable for the amount that most of us shoot. Would you shoot 10x more if it were cheaper, and would this give high enough margins to manufacturers to continue production? Fact is there is a lack of interest because digital and most people wouldn't shoot it for free.

+1

As a seller that deals almost exclusively in film, pricing to move generally means no profit. No profit means you will run out of money and go out of business because that is not sustainable.

Define excess profit. In some camps, any profit is excess. There clearly is a point of excess, however, there is also a point of reasonable and fair, and a point of not sustainable. I very much support film and have put a fair chunk of my free capital in getting emulsions into the marketplace I operate in at a reasonable price, however like the film manufacturers, I am not operating a charity, and if an honest pricing mistake happens, I correct it as quickly as possible after it comes to my attention. If there are pending orders where it’s clear the buyer is taking as much advantage as possible of the mistake, you better believe I’m not filling that order, otherwise, I’ll generally let it through.

A fair amount of stuff I carry had either no availability on Amazon at all, or had ridiculously high prices. I’ve made pretty significant inroads in increasing product availability, and normalizing a bunch of pricing, and plan to continue to do so for as long as the business model works.

 

[removed account4]

I don't think so. Film is plenty affordable for the amount that most of us shoot. Would you shoot 10x more if it were cheaper, and would this give high enough margins to manufacturers to continue production? Fact is there is a lack of interest because digital and most people wouldn't shoot it for free.

not for nothing, but the film and paper companies made $$ hand over fist for years, no DECADES ...
it would have been nice if they took some of the billions of dollars of profits they made
and instead of giving it to shareholders and the execs if they made their product more affordable.

the idea that "1st Tier Fllms and Papers" have to cost 2 or 3x the next one down on the ladder because
they are "1st Teir Films / Papers " is absurd. They don't need to charge anywhere near the amount they charge
and probably their "Cost" at Kodak for 1 100 foot roll of Tri X is about 3$.

i love making photographs but without deeply discounted products
down the road im probably going to use a xerox machine
and some other way of getting an image..

maybe 1 day a year and its discounted 90% across the board...
ben and jerry's does it with their ice cream, they just had " free ice cream cone day" last week.

 

[guangong]

Many moons ago when Koch was mayor on NYC and making a lot of noise about “bait and switch”, Olden Camera made a typo in their ad for a pair of Zeiss Dyalite binoculars. Not as generous as a misplaced decimal point but below dealer cost. Because of the hoopla in the press about “b&s” they honored the price. Still have and use binocs.

 

[bascom49]

There is a difference between being taken advantage of and taking advantage for one’s benefit.All of the consumer protection laws discussed are in place to protect innocent consumers from being taken advantage of.
You haven’t proven or demonstrated that WalMart intentionally tried to gain a monetary advantage by pushing you to make a purchase for its gain with a detriment to you as the consumer. They simply made a mistake, and you as an educated consumer in the area of analog film products recognized the mistake and intentionally tried to take advantage of someone making that mistake for your personal monetary advantage.
We should be discussing your personal ethics, not the fault of WalMart or anyone else.

 

[RattyMouse]

There is a difference between being taken advantage of and taking advantage for one’s benefit.All of the consumer protection laws discussed are in place to protect innocent consumers from being taken advantage of.
You haven’t proven or demonstrated that WalMart intentionally tried to gain a monetary advantage by pushing you to make a purchase for its gain with a detriment to you as the consumer. They simply made a mistake, and you as an educated consumer in the area of analog film products recognized the mistake and intentionally tried to take advantage of someone making that mistake for your personal monetary advantage.
We should be discussing your personal ethics, not the fault of WalMart or anyone else.

Exactly.

 

[RattyMouse]

This is how to sell film. Price it to move. It was a great example of how film manufacturers have priced themselves out of business. Don't blame low sales volume on lack of interest by film photographers.

Ridiculous. And what happens when this priced to move film doesnt generate the revenue needed to pay for raw materials, operating expenses, and salaries?

Unreal the crazy comments you find in this thread.

 

[Kawaiithulhu]

Unreal the crazy comments you find in this thread.

It's called a "price leader" or "loss leader" and designed for the operation/store as a whole, not just the limited viewpoint of a single item. Get people into the store, using your service, for something common and you're going to make it up in return visits and additional purchases at the same time...

 

[removed account4]

It's called a "price leader" or "loss leader" and designed for the operation/store as a whole, not just the limited viewpoint of a single item. Get people into the store, using your service, for something common and you're going to make it up in return visits and additional purchases at the same time...

yup, happens all the time in retail .. sell something super-cheap to get people in the store and the increased business and actually compensates for
$ lost in the product. its kind of funny, the store that wrong price listed on the walmart page could have capitalized on
this moment, and advertised it as "90% Below Cost Limit 2 Rolls / Customer" and then with the film package include information about
their deals on ebay and their website. amd been one of those legendary Ecommerce stores, did a news/media blitz and probably gotten lots more
customers afterwards. i had never heard of them before this blip on the radar...

 

[RattyMouse]

It's called a "price leader" or "loss leader" and designed for the operation/store as a whole, not just the limited viewpoint of a single item. Get people into the store, using your service, for something common and you're going to make it up in return visits and additional purchases at the same time...

Sure. Keep telling yourself that.

 

[removed account4]

Sure. Keep telling yourself that.

have you ever had a store or worked retail ?
why do you think coffee shops don't charge for milk and sugar &c
at the "condiment bar" ...

 

[faberryman]

why do you think coffee shops don't charge for milk and sugar &c

Because it is built in to the price of the coffee?

 

[removed account4]

Because it is built in to the price of the coffee?

the coffee costs about 20¢ to make it is "location / ambiance / vibe" is built into the price of the coffee,
the condiments are a give-away .. some coffee place also give away glasses of seltzer water with their coffee.
also a "loss" but they figure you will buy a 7$ toast point with cuccumber and dill.

 

[bascom49]

have you ever had a store or worked retail ?

I have and do. My wife and I own and operate two retail coffee shops. We started the first in 2008.

No retail business ‘loses’ money from it’s overall budget for operating expenses with a ‘loss leader campaign’. If it does, that business is making a Hail Mary pass to keep the doors open or will soon. You may, however choose, for example, how best to utilize your advertising budget. If your advertising budget per month is 10,000 dollars, you may choose to spend 3000 of that discounting a certain item in order to increase traffic and in store exposure instead of spending that 3000 in print ads, web site trafficking, email campaigns, supporting a local non profit with products, in store promotions, etc.

Businesses, especially retail can not withstand the type of loss that this error in pricing a roll of tri-x could have created. The OP sent out a literal call for all of us on this forum to jump in and take as much advantage as possible to buy as much as possible creating a loss of almost a hundred dollars a roll for that merchant, a merchant that is not WalMart, which could easily be 10 to 20 thousand dollars ( there are certainly 100 to 200 tri x shooters on this forum). I would call this looting.

RattyMouse has suffered a huge blow with the loss of Acros.

What is it that we analog photographers are not getting when it comes to supporting the retail vendors that produce the means to our analog lively hood and enjoyment?