Kodak to lay off 400 workers

[AgX]

The bits of the film side that are probably still going to see some decline/ bottoming out are amateur colour negative film & lab/ print films for cinema, even if there are now a handful more prints being struck for Europe & North America than in the last few years.

What new released movie will still be distributed in Europe on film? And if so in what number??

Keep in mind that Agfa some time ago stopped offering their print film. Obviously demand did not justify a new coating run. We even do not know whether Kodak still manufactures print film. Maybe they just empty their wharehouse.

 

[RattyMouse]

What new released movie will still be distributed in Europe on film? And if so in what number??

Keep in mind that Agfa some time ago stopped offering their print film. Obviously demand did not justify a new coating run. We even do not know whether Kodak still manufactures print film. Maybe they just empty their wharehouse.

I think PE would know if Kodak ceased all film production.

 

[Lachlan Young]

I think PE would know if Kodak ceased all film production.

AgX said 'Print Film'. Your agenda seems incapable of understanding that perhaps Kodak is very well aware of the major decline in the distribution of cinema films as physical prints from the hundreds of thousands or more per annum to perhaps a couple of hundred for special/ early releases. It's likely that 2383/ 3383 are now being made in smaller batches perhaps a couple of times a year. Maybe, just maybe they had planned for this scaled reduction & executed it and that this is a large part of the shrinkage you seem obsessed with.

 

[kuparikettu]

Kodak is aggressively marketing seeing "films on real film". I don't think they have ceased print film production.

Here, take a look:
https://reelfilm.kodak.com/

 

[Cholentpot]

Okay, if colour doesn't matter.

I think deep down we all know that B&W will be the last man standing in the film universe.

 

[AgX]

Kodak is aggressively marketing seeing "films on real film". I don't think they have ceased print film production.
Here, take a look:
https://reelfilm.kodak.com/

The USA are seemingly way behind on digitizing cinemas...
In any case it is a fine idea to indicate those cinemas. But this still does not mean that they get new movies delivered on film.

 

[kuparikettu]

The USA are seemingly way behind on digitizing cinemas...

In part it is that but there has also been the move to service 70mm projectors. Some theaters also see this as a way to market a different experience -- after all, with 4K video projectors and Netflix, some have been asking why bother going to a movie theater when you can have the same experience at home... Analog prints, especially 70mm is something most can't experience at home.

 

[RattyMouse]

The USA are seemingly way behind on digitizing cinemas...
In any case it is a fine idea to indicate those cinemas. But this still does not mean that they get new movies delivered on film.

You are incorrect. That vast majority of movie theatres now show digital projections. There are only a handful of places that can show a proper film movie and they are very few and far between.

 

[RattyMouse]

AgX said 'Print Film'. Your agenda seems incapable of understanding that perhaps Kodak is very well aware of the major decline in the distribution of cinema films as physical prints from the hundreds of thousands or more per annum to perhaps a couple of hundred for special/ early releases. It's likely that 2383/ 3383 are now being made in smaller batches perhaps a couple of times a year. Maybe, just maybe they had planned for this scaled reduction & executed it and that this is a large part of the shrinkage you seem obsessed with.

My agenda? LOL.

Reading from the financial reports there is no indication of any kind that any of these declines in revenue were predicted. Past reports do not indicate that the slow down was predicted. It's all there if you care to read it.

 

[twelvetone12]

AFAIK digital distribution and declining demand for print film is why Kodak a couple years ago shut dow the dedicated coating line and consolidated it in B38.

 

[removedacct1]

Today I am more pleased than ever that I have recently embraced wet plate collodion for making my own glass plate negatives.

That said...
I’ve met scores of people from the “Born Digital” demographic (20~30 YO) who have discovered film technology image making and they are a lusty, passionate bunch who think film is just the cats meow. While the Old Timers (that’s you and me) lament the loss of Film’s Golden Age, these avid young photographers see a new universe exploding with possibilities. Two groups with vastly different experiences both looking at the same environment and coming to very different conclusions.
Ultimately, I believe the Young Film Revivalists will determine the health of the industry going forward, and I do believe that although we will never see a second Golden Age, there will be renewed demand for silver-based technology sufficient to keep several of the manufacturers afloat.
Also, it appears to me that the Olde Industry Giants like Kodak (and maybe we should put Fuji in the same boat) are the ones who are struggling to come to terms with the contraction, while Ilford - a company that isn’t as diversified in its pursuits as Kodak or Fuji - appears to be well-positioned to do well in the long term. I also find it noteworthy that there are several smaller companies like Ferrania, Bergger and even JCH that have ambitions plans to add their voice to the industry.
I’ve seen this happen in other industries: a giant in the business struggles to cope with a severe contraction in the consumption of a product they once sold by the billion, while smaller, new companies step in with new products and discover that they can sustain their business model just fine in context of a smaller market.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I have some glass plates to clean before I can pour collodion.....

 

[LMI]

These Kodak doomsday threads make me want to cut my loses and sell my kit while its still worth something...

If other posters are correct, Kodak's fall will take the rest of the industry with it. Surely thats not the case?

 

[Berri]

I think deep down we all know that B&W will be the last man standing in the film universe.

when that will happen (if ever) I will stop shooting film. I don't like BW.

 

[Cholentpot]

when that will happen (if ever) I will stop shooting film. I don't like BW.

Blasphemy! Who doesn't like seeing things the way Rover does?

 

[Ste_S]

While the Old Timers (that’s you and me) lament the loss of Film’s Golden Age, these avid young photographers see a new universe exploding with possibilities. Two groups with vastly different experiences both looking at the same environment and coming to very different conclusions.

Whilst I'm not young, I've recently got back into film after shooting it my youth in the eighties. Even in the short term I've been shooting again (six months) I've noticed changes in the market. B&W seems to be very much in the ascendant with new boutique brands and re-labeled films being launched regularly. Colour film however seems to be in the descendant with Fuji killing off multiple lines and only Ektarchrome being (re) launched

It's a shame I'm limited to a handful of choices for colour, but I'm still enjoying shooting for however much time is left for C41.

 

[Wallendo]

The challenge for Kodak will be separating their film business from the rest of the company. I fear that a lot of their film assets have been leveraged and cannot simply be sold off. Ideally the film business could be sold to a consortium of large movie studios who could produce film for their use as well as fulfill their Kodak Alaris obligations. I'd hate to see a day where KA is selling lomography film under a Kodak brand.

 

[RattyMouse]

The challenge for Kodak will be separating their film business from the rest of the company. I fear that a lot of their film assets have been leveraged and cannot simply be sold off. Ideally the film business could be sold to a consortium of large movie studios who could produce film for their use as well as fulfill their Kodak Alaris obligations. I'd hate to see a day where KA is selling lomography film under a Kodak brand.

Kodak already tried that. The Hollywood studio group declined to buy Kodak's film unit.

 

[railwayman3]

These Kodak doomsday threads make me want to cut my loses and sell my kit while its still worth something...

If other posters are correct, Kodak's fall will take the rest of the industry with it. Surely thats not the case?

If Ektachrome fails to appear, I think that a resulting problem will be the availability of E6 processing, whether home or lab. And a similar situation might apply in the longer term with C-41. Cost of any remaining processing services could also be an issue.
With B&W we still have Ilford and the smaller producers, and the production seems a degree simpler than color film. Processing is relatively much simpler and less expensive, and scanning/digital printing is available if silver papers became unavailable. So, if you're happy with B&W in the long term, don't rush to sell your kit. (IMHO).

 

[LMI]

Aye, black and white is my thing. I can live without Kodak or Fuji.
I just hope Ilford can too.

 

[mshchem]

Exactly. Essentially they're going to need to aggressively rationalise certain other divisions (like they did with the film manufacturing side) owing to changes in the printing industry. Alaris had to be similarly ruthless in dealing with the shrinking demand for C-print products - they transferred all production to Windsor, CO & shut the Harrow plant. Again this had more to do with changes in the graphics/ advertising industry & shrinking demand for Duratrans etc.

The bits of the film side that are probably still going to see some decline/ bottoming out are amateur colour negative film & lab/ print films for cinema, even if there are now a handful more prints being struck for Europe & North America than in the last few years. Were it to come to it, Alaris would probably have a preferential interest in taking control of the film plant & the cinema division.

Agreed that Alaris needs the film side. Maybe the Pembroke folks that have Ilford could be a White Knight ?

 

[AgX]

Adding a competitor in a declining market with massive overcapacity would make him a Dull Knight.
Unless the Knight knocks him off his horse.
Though he might fall off his horse by himself.

 

[RattyMouse]

Shares taking another pounding today, -5.5%.

 

[Sirius Glass]

 

[BrianShaw]

I read on the internet that the market was responding to discussions in photography discussion forums.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

If Ektachrome fails to appear, I think that a resulting problem will be the availability of E6 processing, whether home or lab.

That's correct. But Kodak is very much a speculative player now with the "new" Ektachrome -- it will make no difference to the market. What really matters is the activities of Fuji going forward as the largest manufacturer of E6 emulsions at this time. If Fujifilm pull up stumps in 2020, exiting film completely, E6 processing services will collapse, as will availability of chemicals (Tetanal, Fuji Hunt) for DIY. There is no escaping from this fact given the continuing decline in E6 processing availability and turn-around.