Kodak T-Max Fixing/Washing

[Nathan King]

I almost always develop my own film; however, I recently sent a few rolls to a well known professional lab because I'm behind with my developing. I fix my T-Max in fresh Ilford Rapid Fixer diluted 1:4 for eight minutes and wash for one half hour. The unexposed areas of my self-developed negatives are always completely colorless. The negatives that returned from the lab have a pronounced purple tint. I realize this can be normal depending on chemistry used, but can this indicate that either fixing or washing were not completed to archival standards? The base plus fog density looks to the naked eye to be about the same as the negatives I develop, and the tint on the commercial negatives is even (no blotches). The negatives print normally at the same paper grade as mine do (shocking since most commercial processing overdevelops negatives). Should I be concerned?

 

[Xmas]

Refix immediately.
Alter own procedure to add use of HCA and Ilfords archival wash.

 

[Rick A]

I don't know about refixing, but you can rewash until it clears. It really isn't (usually) a sign of under fix, but definitely a sign of under washing. If the film was under fixed, is would appear a bit cloudy, somewhat of a gray cast on everything.

 

[Hatchetman]

I do everything to Kodak specs and use HCA and still get purple negatives sometimes with TMX 100. I don't know what the deal is.

 

[fdonadio]

Maybe the anti-halation dyes? I've heard it's advisable to prewash T-Max for this reason.


Sent with Tapatalk. Please, forgive autocorrect and my fat fingers.

 

[Derek Lofgreen]

I just souped 4 120 rolls of T-Max 100 yesterday. I had some Kodak fixer and some Ilford Rapid Fixer. The first roll I did, I fixed with the Kodak fixer for 12 mins. The film ended up with a pink tint. It was fixed clear but had a pink base. I let it wash while I souped the next roll. The next roll I used the Ilford fixer. I fixed it for 12 min at 1:4. That roll came out clear and had just a little bit of the pink tint. I finished the last two rolls off with the Ilford fixer while the other two washed. After washing for about 20 mins all 3 of the rolls fixed with Ilford fixer are perfectly clear. The one fixed with Kodak fixer is still pink. I could have kept washing it because the water kept coming out pink but I just didn't have the time to finish it.

My results may be different from everyone else's but I would suggest using the Ilford Rapid Fixer over the Kodak for T-Max films if you don't want the pink base. Also, make sure to wash well to remove any pink that remains. That pink tint makes me think I should switch to Ilford Delta films but the base is so thin on the Delta films I end up tearing it up when I try to load it on my reals. Its pretty fragile stuff in my hands. Maybe I should practice some more so I don't get carried a way with it.

Hope that helps,
D.

 

[Ronald Moravec]

My Tmax gets the pink tint to the base. I use D76 home made, photographers Formulary TF4 fix. No short stop or water rinse. No HCA

The secret seems to be very fresh fix, one time use in my case. I go through the Ilford wash sequence, then a series of 60" soaks until base clears. Usually 2 does the trick. Agitation during soaks seems not to accelerate removal of pink. Agitation is highly important during wash.

I never reuse fix as I observe metalic flakes in the bottom of glass fix bottle after 24 hours. These stick like glue to next film requiring spotting on next scans or prints. Use up fix on test prints.

Rapid fix is required. Plain old sodium sulfate fix like Kodak Fixer will not clear Delta or T Max films regardless of time.

I would suspect the blue color is from NOT using amonium thiosulfate fix.

 

[albada]

My Tmax gets the pink tint to the base. I use D76 home made, photographers Formulary TF4 fix. No short stop or water rinse. No HCA
The secret seems to be very fresh fix, one time use in my case.

My experience agrees about needing fresh fixer. TF4 works great, but I wasn't paying attention and overused mine, and began getting residual pink which no amount of washing would remove.
Like you, I've switched to using fixer one-shot. I'm diluting fixer more to use less chemistry. TF4 at half strength is fine, as is Artfix at 1/3 strength. (I haven't tried TF4 at 1/3.)

Mark Overton

 

[Rick A]

My 'fix' for the problem, don't use T grain film.

 

[Xmas]

Kodak say a faint pink colour is acceptable but may be evidence of marginal fixing.
I use plain sodium thiosulphate it clears Tmax 400 in five minutes or so at 20C in fresh A bath fixing by inspection.
If you get bromide drag symptoms it is kaput fixer...
The pink colour will fade if you have fixed ok.
My A, B & HCA go pink but do also fade.
I fix for twice the clear time there is margin cause the B bath is fresher than A bath.
I normally have to temper fix to get it to 20C cause it is slower cooler, washing is also temperature dependent. I temper the wash to 20C... I use Ilfords 3x archival at 20C after HCA.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I do everything to Kodak specs and use HCA and still get purple negatives sometimes with TMX 100. I don't know what the deal is.

the antihalation layer in Tmax is a bit stubborn to wash out but a two-bath fix and HCA followed by 10 min wash should do it. process all film yourself because nobody cares about you film as much as you do

 

[pentaxuser]

From my limited experience of Tmax films the best solution to the "tint" problem seems to be a 5 minute pre-soak. The dye really comes out with 5 mins and the rest is "fixed" with fixer and the Ilford wash sequence.

pentaxuser

 

[Nathan King]

The consensus is that it may or may not be a problem. The tech specs from Kodak say the same thing (it MAY be fixer reaching end of life or it MAY be incomplete washing or it MAY be completely innocuous). I'll leave a negative strip out and see if the color fades. I'll also take some leader and perform a residual hypo test.

 

[zehner21]

I use the Ilford washing cycle; I get rid of the purple/pink stain by using water each time warmer than the previous.

 

[Rick A]

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[Lamar]

I read here a while back that the T grain films need to be fixed for 3 times the clearing time as opposed to 2 times the clearing time for conventional films. Since I've followed that rule I've had no more pink under-fixed issues with any.

 

[RPC]

I just do twice clearing with T-Max and even with fresh fixer there will always be a little stain left, but always comes out within a few minutes of the wash.

 

[GarageBoy]

TMY-2 comes out greyer than my perpetually pink TriX-
I use ilford rapid fix, ilford wash sequence and a 5 min rinse after- no HCA

 

[Pioneer]

I just use fixers with ammonium thiosulphate (I think I spelled that right.) Fix for 10 minutes with fresh fixer, Ilford wash cycle but double the time for each cycle. Rarely have a problem and I don't pre-wash. Sometimes if I am using really expired TMX then I end up having to refix for another 5 minutes and then washing again because I end up with pink after the first go through.

I do agree that fixing and washing it properly is a pain in the neck, but it is such a beautiful film that I put up with it. The only black and white film I have found that has less grain is Adox CMS 20 and that is more expensive and even more a pain to develop because of the special developer. I know that not everyone likes it. That just means there is more of it for me.

 

[Ronald Moravec]

My experience agrees about needing fresh fixer. TF4 works great, but I wasn't paying attention and overused mine, and began getting residual pink which no amount of washing would remove.
Like you, I've switched to using fixer one-shot. I'm diluting fixer more to use less chemistry. TF4 at half strength is fine, as is Artfix at 1/3 strength. (I haven't tried TF4 at 1/3.)

Mark Overton

That is correct. Incomplete fix leaves pink that can not be washed out no matter how long you wash.

I fix 5 minutes in new TF4.

 

[Sirius Glass]

My 'fix' for the problem, don't use T grain film.

By sticking to traditional grain films, I have avoided the problem too.

 

[takilmaboxer]

A couple of years ago I ran an experiment to solve this problem. After a ten minute fix in Kodak hardening fixer (the powder kind without the bottle of acid), my T100 was still very pink. So I divided the test roll into two pieces. The first I reinserted into the fix and agitated every 30 seconds. After another ten minutes the pink color disappeared, leaving a beautifully clear base. With the remaining half, I put it into the running wash water and simply left it there. After about 30 minutes (no HCA was used) the pink color disappeared.
The moral of the story is simply, proper fixing and washing will eliminate the pink color, and the base material is beautifully clear. Of course, I also have ten year old negatives that were pink after processing. They are still pink, and no image deterioration has occurred. But I love the clear base, so I am very thorough nowadays.
Also, I mostly stick to Tri-X. It is more forgiving of processing errors than Tmax.

 

[Nathan King]

I contacted the lab. They said the residual stain is due to the PH of the fixer they use. Does this sound reasonable?

 

[kreeger]

I contacted the lab. They said the residual stain is due to the PH of the fixer they use. Does this sound reasonable?

It wouldn't answer it for me. Do they process by hand at this lab or is it nitrogen burst, Wing Lynch, roller transport??

 

[Xmas]

I contacted the lab. They said the residual stain is due to the PH of the fixer they use. Does this sound reasonable?

No refix and re wash...
They are wearing high heel boots with jangly go faster devices attached.
Read Ron's posts in the thread again