Kodak Stock Down to $5.45

[mshchem]

We'll call the group KPUG!

Excellent idea! We will make PE Chief Kodachrome Chemist, he would love that

 

[RattyMouse]

If I wanted to react to a random number generator I'd play with my calculator.

You think a -30% drop is random? Seriously?

 

[RattyMouse]

You don't ignore it at all, you solve problems. Unfortunately in this case that means jobs.

425 jobs were lost yesterday at Kodak. Is this solving the problem?

 

[mshchem]

It is amazing how little volume there is of Kodak shares during normal days. Under 100,000 shares traded! Why is that? Even tiny penny stocks for biotech companies trade millions of shares per day.

Good luck with your purchase. You have waay more guts than I do.

Dumb is my middle name! The reason no big lots are being offered is they are held by hedge funds and mutual funds. There's not that many crazy people like me out there

 

[RattyMouse]

Dumb is my middle name! The reason no big lots are being offered is they are held by hedge funds and mutual funds. There's not that many crazy people like me out there

I dont think that is true at all. Almost no hedge fund or mutual fund will hold a stock that is priced under $5/share. That is why we saw a huge wave of selling yesterday. Once the $5 floor was broken through, the priced dropped massively as all the institutional holders sold off.

 

[mshchem]

I don't know. I'm going out now. I need to execute another part of my well thought out retirement plan. I'm burying a mayonnaise jar full of high yield Puerto Rican municipal bonds in the back yard before the ground freezes

 

[bvy]

425 jobs were lost yesterday at Kodak. Is this solving the problem?

It's addressing it (i.e. not ignoring it). It remains to be seen if it solves it.

 

[LMI]

I've heard that the reason Fuji and Kodak keep having trouble with their film divisions is that they make a lot of color films. Compared to exclusively black and white film manufacturers like Ilford/Adox/Foma, the big two are losing money.

Im not going to pretend to know how Kodak or Fuji manufacture their film, and whether its cost effective or not, but I do know that making black and white is much easier. Critically, it can be produced in small batches (to match the small market) and still be profitable. So far as Ive read, its more difficult to do this small batch production with color films.

I dont want to go out on a limb here, but perhaps color film is simply not cost efficient to produce in a niche market? Comlare Kodak to Ilford: llford has a full line of b&w films that they maintain, in multiple formats, a full line if papers and chemicals. I cant imagine demand for each (besides HP5 and FP4) is anything but low, but Ilford has been doing this for 12 years now, so clearly its profitable. Kodak and Fuji h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶c̶o̶l̶o̶r̶ ̶p̶a̶p̶e̶r̶s̶,̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶d̶u̶c̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶c̶o̶l̶o̶r̶ ̶d̶e̶v̶e̶l̶o̶p̶e̶r̶s̶ have discontinued more color films in the last twelve years than there are films in Ilfords entire lineup.

At the very least, we'll always have b&w...but perhaps not color. I hope Im wrong about that.

 

[bvy]

Kodak and Fuji have no color papers, produce no color developers...

???

 

[LMI]

???

Forgive me, am I wrong about this?

Edit: I was! Guess color isnt as unprofitable as a thought. Still, my point stands regarding black abd white production.

 

[mshchem]

I just day traded my 1000 shares. Made 13 cents a share after commissions I made a 120 bucks. Now subtract that from the 200 I lost in Kodak a week ago (in 24 hours) I'm only down 80 bucks. I'm a financial wiz. Maybe I should be chairman. IRA money I shouldn't be playing with

 

[AgX]

 

[Ste_S]

I've heard that the reason Fuji and Kodak keep having trouble with their film divisions is that they make a lot of color films. Compared to exclusively black and white film manufacturers like Ilford/Adox/Foma, the big two are losing money.

Im not going to pretend to know how Kodak or Fuji manufacture their film, and whether its cost effective or not, but I do know that making black and white is much easier. Critically, it can be produced in small batches (to match the small market) and still be profitable. So far as Ive read, its more difficult to do this small batch production with color films.

I dont want to go out on a limb here, but perhaps color film is simply not cost efficient to produce in a niche market? Comlare Kodak to Ilford: llford has a full line of b&w films that they maintain, in multiple formats, a full line if papers and chemicals. I cant imagine demand for each (besides HP5 and FP4) is anything but low, but Ilford has been doing this for 12 years now, so clearly its profitable. Kodak and Fuji h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶c̶o̶l̶o̶r̶ ̶p̶a̶p̶e̶r̶s̶,̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶d̶u̶c̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶c̶o̶l̶o̶r̶ ̶d̶e̶v̶e̶l̶o̶p̶e̶r̶s̶ have discontinued more color films in the last twelve years than there are films in Ilfords entire lineup.

At the very least, we'll always have b&w...but perhaps not color. I hope Im wrong about that.

I have a feeling E6 will die. I can only hope for C41 that Fuji and Kodak slim product lines down to remain profitable and that business keeps a couple of labs going in each country. Kodak launching Ektachrome at the moment looks like madness.

Hopefully Vision 3 at the bare minimum keeps going for Hollywood so we can always re-purpose that

 

[Ai Print]

Kodak launching Ektachrome at the moment looks like madness.

I thought that from the very beginning. Anyone who actually runs a business or depends on B&W products to run theirs like I do would be thinking the same.

 

[removed account4]

GE has tanked too, and they are building a billion dollar complex in boston ...
you'd think kodak would watch GE and see
if a company was flailing they would trim the deadwood off the tree
so in the hurricane all that extra weight won't fell the tree ...
putting out new products when their company is tanking is kind of nutty.
where's perez when you need him, they need to be selling some ink
or a cloud based image retrieval system and
advertising on the cartoon network to parents with little kids, not make chrome film
people will use once or twice and give up because they will think its a hassle to process..
i don't even have an MBA but i know to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich you need bread.

 

[RattyMouse]

No change in direction today, Kodak shares being hit very very hard by sellers, now down almost -5.0% (now done an astonishing 50% for the past month!)

Edit: Now down -8.3% .

 

[vdonovan]

I've heard that the reason Fuji and Kodak keep having trouble with their film divisions is that they make a lot of color films. Compared to exclusively black and white film manufacturers like Ilford/Adox/Foma, the big two are losing money.

Im not going to pretend to know how Kodak or Fuji manufacture their film, and whether its cost effective or not, but I do know that making black and white is much easier. Critically, it can be produced in small batches (to match the small market) and still be profitable. So far as Ive read, its more difficult to do this small batch production with color films.

I dont want to go out on a limb here, but perhaps color film is simply not cost efficient to produce in a niche market? Comlare Kodak to Ilford: llford has a full line of b&w films that they maintain, in multiple formats, a full line if papers and chemicals. I cant imagine demand for each (besides HP5 and FP4) is anything but low, but Ilford has been doing this for 12 years now, so clearly its profitable. Kodak and Fuji h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶c̶o̶l̶o̶r̶ ̶p̶a̶p̶e̶r̶s̶,̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶d̶u̶c̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶c̶o̶l̶o̶r̶ ̶d̶e̶v̶e̶l̶o̶p̶e̶r̶s̶ have discontinued more color films in the last twelve years than there are films in Ilfords entire lineup.

At the very least, we'll always have b&w...but perhaps not color. I hope Im wrong about that.

Per Kodak's 2016 10-K report, photographic film (motion picture and still) is about 13% of Kodak's total business. Kodak really is in the industrial printing business, with photographic film as a sideline. The profit or loss due to photographic film has little to do with Kodak's bottom line or stock performance. My understanding is that they are re-introducing Ektachrome and Super8 products - and working with motion picture studios - as a way to raise the profile of Kodak as a company, but not as a serious potential revenue source.

 

[AgX]

To "raise the profile of Kodak as a company" in shareholder value world with something as outdated as photographic film?

 

[mshchem]

To "raise the profile of Kodak as a company" in shareholder value world with something as outdated as photographic film?

Maybe raising the profile means he's going to fire all the short guys

 

[Sirius Glass]

I have a feeling E6 will die. I can only hope for C41 that Fuji and Kodak slim product lines down to remain profitable and that business keeps a couple of labs going in each country. Kodak launching Ektachrome at the moment looks like madness.

Hopefully Vision 3 at the bare minimum keeps going for Hollywood so we can always re-purpose that

E6 is already dead. Other threads are talking about its resurrection.
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/kodak-reintroduces-ektachrome.143089/

 

[mshchem]

I'm back into Kodak stock! I'm going to ride the Ektachrome Rally! E-6 isn't dead it's just resting! So I suppose EK is buying 5L Fuji kits from Freestyle and running it on a Jobo CPP-3. I think it's all going to be fine. Just like some day we will be able to pay off the National Debt.
Mike

 

[mikemgb]

This may be it in a nutshell. They put all their money on the wrong horse??

Kodak are huge, they have to diversify to survive, unfortunately I believe you are right, they should not have tried to compete in this market.

Your experience reflects Kodak's financial problems. Their revenues are in decline so clearly they are losing a significant number of customers. The catastrophic drop in Kodak's stock price for the year (-80%) reflects the fact that owners of Kodak are fleeing in a stampede for the exits. Today's trading will be interesting to watch, to see if any value investors step in to pick up Kodak shares at a discount price.

If you truly believe in Kodak's future, now is the time to buy shares. There's a lot of positive talk about Kodak here, but who will put their money where their mouth is?

Unfortunately I don't believe in them enough to buy into them. Personally I would love to see them succeed as a film company, their products are awesome. As the manager of a printing company I wouldn't go near them, I'm not going to trust my production capabilities to a company that may not be around next year.

As I said earlier, I really do hope the film division can survive and continue.

 

[mshchem]

Kodak are huge, they have to diversify to survive, unfortunately I believe you are right, they should not have tried to compete in this market.




Unfortunately I don't believe in them enough to buy into them. Personally I would love to see them succeed as a film company, their products are awesome. As the manager of a printing company I wouldn't go near them, I'm not going to trust my production capabilities to a company that may not be around next year.

As I said earlier, I really do hope the film division can survive and continue.

Kodak corporate is trying to rediscover "razors and razor blades" in the good old days cheap cameras that they didn't make money and a bonanza from film. They have been trying to do this over and over and haven't figured it out yet. The printing plate division etc. There needs to be a new CEO and they need to divest divisions that they don't understand. Look at what Fuji has done with Instax. Consumer imaging based on something Kodak knows. Leave the dopey sourced product alone. The same thing is happening to GE, they need to quit trying to be Apple and do what they are good at

 

[RattyMouse]

The bottom feeders are moving in! Kodak is up 6.6% today so far!

 

[Bob Carnie]

I thought that from the very beginning. Anyone who actually runs a business or depends on B&W products to run theirs like I do would be thinking the same.

I agree, unless they are going back to George Eastman Days and you send your film to Rochester... basically all the custom labs , have dropped E6 or considering...I see colour processing in the future to be a mail in only exercise.. Something to consider if I was 10 years younger.