Kodak Signet 35 CLA/TLC tips?

[fabulousrice]

One of the cameras in my collection I use the most these days is a Kodak Signet.
I love how small it is, it's very sharp and the rangefinder helps me nail exposure all the time.

However sometimes the cocking lever stays stuck in down position when I fire shots, and the little arm under the trigger doesn't always come back all the way up and I'm afraid to damage it by cocking again while the trigger lever is down.

I've opened and fixed a few things about this camera already (I've changed the knobs on top, replaces peeling skin, recalibrated the rangefinder...) but the sticky shutter isn't something I feel very comfortable trying to fix at home.

Could I just lube it up with some oil or do I possibly have to change the springs? Where would one find such springs? I don't think it makes sense to send it to get CLA'd outside given the camera is relatively inexpensive and I'd rather fix it myself

 

[Hunter_Compton]

I have come to quite like the Signet 35. It's a nice camera with an excellent lens, but the Synchro 300 shutter is its weak point.

The biggest problem with the shutter and other similar types, is that it only uses two shutter blades. This simplifies the design, but the tradeoff is that there is a lot of overlapping surface area between the two blades, and if any oil or debris gets between the shutter blades it will stick them together and cause the shutter to be sluggish or jam entirely.

Oil will not help the situation. No leaf shutter should oil applied to it in excess and not these especially. A shutter will run dry but it won't run at all with much oil in it.

The shutter needs to be disassembled and have all the parts cleaned and degreased, then reassembled with minimal lubrication. (As a side note, I don't use any oil at all in leaf shutters now, I use a small bit of moly paste and powdered graphite, but you need to be very sparse with the graphite, or it will redeposit itself on the inner lens surfaces. Rubbing some on the shutter blades with a q-tip then using canned air or a lens blower to remove any excess is the best method).

Fortunately, the Synchro 300 is a fairly simple shutter. You can find instructions on how to get into it here: https://pheugo.com/cameras/index.php?page=signet35

 

[cmacd123]

Normally cameras require a vanishingly small amount of OIL.

at least one tutorial on a signet is available... https://learncamerarepair.com/product.php?product=667

 

[albada]

The shutter is simple and easy to work on. You can apply a TINY amount of grease on the ramps of the cocking ring so it'll return after firing. The escapement mechanisms have a toothwheel and palette; you can remove both and clean them in a solvent.

But the hard part is unscrewing the front lens element. They are usually on very hard (probably glue on the threads), and if you torque them hard, you might bend the stays visible from the back of the camera. But once the lens is off, the hard part is behind you.

Mark

 

[blee1996]

Incidentally, I was restoring a Kodak Signet 35 last weekend as well. Here are my notes:

1. Dirty and dim rangefinder/viewfinder. I did a thorough cleaning, and found there is no adjustment needed. Right now it looks good.
2. My shutter sometimes cannot stay cocked, and all speeds are slow or hang. I opened up the shutter
   • Cleaned everything that my cotton swab (with 90% alcohol) can reach
   • Lifted off the star wheel and cog for the slow speed regulator, and thoroughly cleaned everything before putting back
   • Since I don't intend to use flash, I removed the star wheel and cog for the M-Sync delay mechanism.
   • My shutter blades looks clean, so I did not clean them.
   • I did not use any oil or lubricant of any kind

After the shutter CLA, I tested the shutter and everything are good now. It is not exactly spec, but consistent. 1/300s is like 1/250s, 1/100s is 1/60s, 1/50s is 1/30s, and 1/25 is 1/15s. Since there are only 4 speeds, I can remember them and use the true speed for exposure calculation.

RE: removing the front cell. Indeed it is very tight, and cannot be removed with hand or rubber sheet. So I used this little trick.

Kodak Synchro Rapid 800 shutter on Tourist II

Hi, I recently acquired a Kodak Tourist II in excellent shape with the top of line lens/shutter combo: Kodak Anastar 101/4.5 (Tessar formula) set in Kodak Synchro Rapid 800 shutter. But as expected, the infamous Synchro Rapid 800 shutter is quite dead. I'm really into Kodak lens from that era...

www.photrio.com

 

[sablue]

The shutter is simple and easy to work on. You can apply a TINY amount of grease on the ramps of the cocking ring so it'll return after firing. The escapement mechanisms have a toothwheel and palette; you can remove both and clean them in a solvent.

But the hard part is unscrewing the front lens element. They are usually on very hard (probably glue on the threads), and if you torque them hard, you might bend the stays visible from the back of the camera. But once the lens is off, the hard part is behind you.

Mark

Does the entire element unscrew from the front or the retaining ring inside needs to be removed first? I'm stuck either way.

 

[retina_restoration]

Does the entire element unscrew from the front or the retaining ring inside needs to be removed first? I'm stuck either way.
View attachment 367000

If you are asking about removing the shutter from the camera body, then you will need a lens spanner to unscrew the retaining ring from the inside of the camera. However, the earlier models of the Signet 35 have a retaining ring that is often impossible to remove. Either it has been torqued on very tightly or LocTite (or similar) has been used to glue it in place. I have had several of the early versions and could not remove the shutter ring no matter what I tried.

What is the serial number on the front lens group? Signets with a serial number starting with RC, RA or RM are the earlier versions, and those will have a retaining ring that you won't likely be able to remove. Signets with a serial number of RE, RR, or RO will have the retaining ring that is far easier to unscrew.

If you cannot remove the shutter from the camera body, then you won't be able to do any more work on the shutter than you have already. If you have cleaned and lubricated the components accessible from the front (as you've pictured) then you have done the important work and the shutter should perform well.

 

[sablue]

If you are asking about removing the shutter from the camera body, then you will need a lens spanner to unscrew the retaining ring from the inside of the camera. However, the earlier models of the Signet 35 have a retaining ring that is often impossible to remove. Either it has been torqued on very tightly or LocTite (or similar) has been used to glue it in place. I have had several of the early versions and could not remove the shutter ring no matter what I tried.

What is the serial number on the front lens group? Signets with a serial number starting with RC, RA or RM are the earlier versions, and those will have a retaining ring that you won't likely be able to remove. Signets with a serial number of RE, RR, or RO will have the retaining ring that is far easier to unscrew.

If you cannot remove the shutter from the camera body, then you won't be able to do any more work on the shutter than you have already. If you have cleaned and lubricated the components accessible from the front (as you've pictured) then you have done the important work and the shutter should perform well.

Thanks for the response.
Yes, The spanner attempt did nothing. I assumed glue must be in there. The lens is RC16576(L). I'm quite new to this and was resolved that I've gone as far as I can. I was hoping to remove more parts for cleaning but will stop here and do what I can. I don't want to break anything.

 

[blee1996]

Good luck! Despite its shutter, the Signet 35 is well worth the restoration effort.

 

[Hunter_Compton]

In my experience you don't have to remove the shutter housing from the focusing helical in order to service it. If you get as far as the photo in post #6, you can go ahead and remove the mechanism plate from the shutter housing by removing its fastening screws and lifting it out. The one catch you will find is that the cocking lever and its ring are in the way. I believe originally Kodak would have punched out the knob on the cocking lever, removed the lever and then lifted out the mechanism plate.

I've found you can leave the cocking lever in place and slide the mechanism plate out from underneath it if you tip up the cocking lever so that its ring can clear. It's slightly more annoying, but not impossible.

 

[sablue]

In my experience you don't have to remove the shutter housing from the focusing helical in order to service it. If you get as far as the photo in post #6, you can go ahead and remove the mechanism plate from the shutter housing by removing its fastening screws and lifting it out. The one catch you will find is that the cocking lever and its ring are in the way. I believe originally Kodak would have punched out the knob on the cocking lever, removed the lever and then lifted out the mechanism plate.

I've found you can leave the cocking lever in place and slide the mechanism plate out from underneath it if you tip up the cocking lever so that its ring can clear. It's slightly more annoying, but not impossible.

Thanks. I would like to clean the shutter and aperture parts, but maybe another day. I did remove the two screws from the plate and held the ring out of the way, but the plate would not budge. I assumed there may glue here as well as at the rear retaining ring. Being new, I'm in no rush. I may try again but don't want to force anything without being sure of what is usual for these mechanisms.

Edit ...I gently tried again with your advice. It's out! It may not need it but I mostly just want the experience.