Kodak Royal-X Film - History ?

Photo Engineer · Dec 21, 2015

I have no idea. The Royal X Pan that I used in 120 had normal neg film curve shape, and but for the bad grain and sharpness would have been ok. It was not a big seller IIRC.

But then, I may be wrong.

PE

Sirius Glass · Dec 21, 2015

Photo Engineer said:
And about this "who cares" comment of mine.... Who cares what I say!

PE

I do.

cmacd123 · Dec 21, 2015

Photo Engineer said:
I have been thinking about this.
Who cares?
PE

Maybe those of us who remeber being able to go into a shop and getting dozens of types of films to play with ....

Maybe those who remeber when the films get better and better every year, and who expected that by now we would have 3200 ASA films with Grain no worse than Kodacolour II had when it came out.

Maybe I am a dreamer, but I am not the only one...

wiltw · Dec 21, 2015

BrianShaw said:
I thought there were two " Royal" films: one 1250 and the other 400.

Right.

Photo Engineer said:
Royal X Pan film was made as a sheet film and in 120 sizes from the mid '70s until the early '90s IIRC.

Royal-X was not in rollfilm form (at least not according to my Kodak Master Darkroom Dataguide c.1966 when I purchased it)

Royal-X was only in sheet film form, ASA 1250. You could not develop it in D-76 or Microdol-X or D-50

Royal Pan was in rollfilm and sheet film form, ASA 400. You could develop in any of the developers used for Royal-X as well as in D-76 and Microdol-X and D-50.

Royal-X was rated by Kodak as MC for grain, ML for resolving;
Royal Pan was rated by Kodak as F for grain, M for resolving.

Since Royal-X was not in rollfilm form (at least not in mid-1960s, according to my Kodak Master Darkroom Dataguide from back then) the OP probably is referring to Royal Pan, not Royal-X, although his recollection of ASA 1250 is puzzling.

Photo Engineer · Dec 21, 2015

For the last time, Royal X pan was in sheet and roll (120) size. It was 1250.

PE

wiltw · Dec 21, 2015

Photo Engineer said:
For the last time, Royal X pan was in sheet and roll (120) size. It was 1250.

PE

OK, I failed to note rollfilm Royal-X separately listed in Kodak c 1966 publication, while Royal-X Estar Thick base ASA 1250 as only in sheet film format.

Photo Engineer · Dec 21, 2015

I have some 120. Want some? Remember, Royal X Pan!!!!!

PE

nworth · Dec 21, 2015

My first recollection of Royal-X Pan was in 1956 in its SO (special order) version. A friend got some and used it on an assignment to photograph a construction site at dusk. It probably first appeared sometime in 1955. As an SO film, it came in sheet film sizes. It was at least available in 4X5 and 8X10, I don't know about other sizes. A few months later, it became available as a regular product under the label Royal-X Pan and with a gray stripe on the boxes. The initial sizes were sheet film and 620. Remember, Kodak made some professional level 620 cameras at that time. I'm not sure if 120 was in the original set of film sizes, but, if not, it followed shortly. The film was rated at ASA 650, but the recommendations were to expose it at 1250 and above. 1600 was usual, and it was often pushed to even higher speeds, with an expected loss of quality. Some experiments yielded some satisfactory surveillance photos at ASA 25000. The film had very coarse grain and low sharpness, but you could make acceptable 8X10s from a 4X5 negative. Smaller negatives gave pretty terrible results. Higher speeds gave worse grain and higher contrast. Development was usually in DK-50, although people tried all sorts of things, like UFG and D-76 with 10X borax (20g/l instead of 2). Royal-X Pan continued to be offered until at least the late 1970s. It was superseded by TMax P3200, which (I believe) only came in 35mm.

Royal-X Pan was never offered in 35mm. But 35mm users made use of another SO product of nearly the same speed. That film became Kodak 2485 High Speed Recording Film. The grain was about as bad as Royal-X Pan, but it was a bit sharper and it had extended red sensitivity. It could be pushed, but not as much. Photographers used it for extreme grain. It was available in 35mm and 70mm long rolls (Estar AH base), and it may have shown up in some sheet film sizes on special order (I've seen RAR recording film in 4X5 sheets, but I'm not sure about this kind).

In the previous discussion, there has been some confusion between Kodak Royal Pan and Kodak Royal-X Pan. This confusion has always existed. They a two very different films. Kodak Royal Pan was available only in sheet film sizes. It was a high quality, fine grained films used extensively by studio and professional photographers. It was rated at ASA 400, but many used it at 250.

Mr Bill · Dec 22, 2015

wiltw said:
Since Royal-X was not in rollfilm form (at least not in mid-1960s, according to my Kodak Master Darkroom Dataguide from back then) the OP probably is referring to Royal Pan, not Royal-X, although his recollection of ASA 1250 is puzzling.

I think, like PE suggests, the OP is recollecting Royal-X pan. Not "Royal Pan" nor "Royal-X," but the full name of "Royal-X Pan."

I was most certainly using this in the late '60s, in 120 size, and I'm pretty certain that it was ASA 1250 speed. I was particularly amused by the enclosed data sheet's warning to the effect of "Extreme high-speed, do not use in daylight."

As a side note, Richard Henry, in his 1988 book used Royal-X Pan as one of his test films (for factors affecting granularity, etc.) So it would seem to have been available in that time frame. (But perhaps the testing had been done in the first edition, roughly 4 years earlier.)

railwayman3 · Dec 22, 2015

Mr Bill said:
I think, like PE suggests, the OP is recollecting Royal-X pan. Not "Royal Pan" nor "Royal-X," but the full name of "Royal-X Pan."

I was most certainly using this in the late '60s, in 120 size, and I'm pretty certain that it was ASA 1250 speed. I was particularly amused by the enclosed data sheet's warning to the effect of "Extreme high-speed, do not use in daylight."

I mentioned, above, the 120 negs which I have from my late father, photos of factory interiors. I have just re-checked them, and I should have quoted the full note on them which, as written, is "Royal-X Pan, 1250, Unitol", dated June 1961.

Byclops · Dec 22, 2015

In 1958-59 I shot local high school basketball games by available light using 120 Royal-X Pan at ASA 1600 in my Yashicamat. Developed in DK-50 late the same night and had 3 or 4 prints with suggested captions ready by the next morning for delivery to the area newspaper office by a neighbor who worked near it. The paper always published at least one photograph, and, yes, they were grainy.

Paul Howell · Dec 22, 2015

When in the Air Force in the 70s we had Royal X on hand, I don't recall ever shooting with it, when I need low light I used TirX or GAF 500 developed in Diafine. I had to clean out our stash of expired film and paper to send back to supply, had a dozen rolls of the stuff. One of the civilians used the sheet film for nudes, had an interesting look I never asked where he got his film.

aoresteen · Dec 22, 2015

nworth said:
My first recollection of Royal-X Pan was in 1956 in its SO (special order) version. .....

Nworth,

Thanks! So now we know it was introduced in 1956. Great bit of info!

Theo Sulphate · Dec 22, 2015

Somewhere in Kodak there must be a room on the upper floors where there is a big yellow book with red trim and black letters, sitting atop a lecturn, where a wizened old man with a long beard has inscribed all these film details.

Photo Engineer · Dec 22, 2015

Heh, yeah, I've met him!

There is a red silk book marker as well.

PE

Gerald C Koch · Dec 23, 2015

There should still be a site somewhere on the net that lists the release and termination dates and formats for all Kodak films. I remember consulting it a few years ago.

Gerald C Koch · Dec 23, 2015

Theo Sulphate said:
Somewhere in Kodak there must be a room on the upper floors where there is a big yellow book with red trim and black letters, sitting atop a lecturn, where a wizened old man with a long beard has inscribed all these film details.

In a way there is it is called the internet. A few years ago I found a site that listed the release and termination dates for most Kodak films. Also listed which the formats available for each.

aoresteen · Nov 25, 2018

Ha! I have one last roll of Royal-X Pan 120 to shoot. I think I will use my Mamiya 645 1000s with 80mm f/1.9 lens and see what it will do. Of course it's long expired - Nov 1987

I just got 11 rolls of Ilford Delta 3200 in 120 to try out. So this is farewell to Kodak Royal-X pan and hello to Ilford Delta 3200 120. Kodak would never bring back Royal-X pan, now would they?

E. von Hoegh · Nov 25, 2018

aoresteen said:
Ha! I have one last roll of Royal-X Pan 120 to shoot. I think I will use my Mamiya 645 1000s with 80mm f/1.9 lens and see what it will do. Of course it's long expired - Nov 1987

I just got 11 rolls of Ilford Delta 3200 in 120 to try out. So this is farewell to Kodak Royal-X pan and hello to Ilford Delta 3200 120. Kodak would never bring back Royal-X pan, now would they?

I have a box of 4x5, same era.

laser · Nov 25, 2018

The coronation of Queen Elizabeth II was to be held in Westminster Abbey in June 1953. Flash photography was to be forbidden during the ceremony. Kodak Ltd. film designers were given the assignment to make a fast film to facilitate available light 4x5 photography. Their emulsion was coated on paper to get an extra speed boost. The next year a new film using a similar emulsion, Kodak Royal Pan Film, was introduced. Kodak Royal-X Pan Film in 120-size was introduced in 1956. Reference: Shanebrook, Making KODAK Film, ©2016, page 401.

www.makingKODAKfilm.com

E. von Hoegh · Nov 26, 2018

laser said:
The coronation of Queen Elizabeth II was to be held in Westminster Abbey in June 1953. Flash photography was to be forbidden during the ceremony. Kodak Ltd. film designers were given the assignment to make a fast film to facilitate available light 4x5 photography. Their emulsion was coated on paper to get an extra speed boost. The next year a new film using a similar emulsion, Kodak Royal Pan Film, was introduced. Kodak Royal-X Pan Film in 120-size was introduced in 1956. Reference: Shanebrook, Making KODAK Film, ©2016, page 401.

www.makingKODAKfilm.com

And the Queen is still with us...

Ian Grant · Nov 26, 2018

laser said:
The coronation of Queen Elizabeth II was to be held in Westminster Abbey in June 1953. Flash photography was to be forbidden during the ceremony. Kodak Ltd. film designers were given the assignment to make a fast film to facilitate available light 4x5 photography. Their emulsion was coated on paper to get an extra speed boost. The next year a new film using a similar emulsion, Kodak Royal Pan Film, was introduced. Kodak Royal-X Pan Film in 120-size was introduced in 1956. Reference: Shanebrook, Making KODAK Film, ©2016, page 401.

www.makingKODAKfilm.com

With that information I should be able to find the data on the films in the relevant BJP Almanac and I have 3 Kodak Professional Catalogues from the late 1950's early 1960's.

I did try a roll of Royal-X Pan once however like others have said it had grain like golf balls.

Ian

Ian Grant · Nov 26, 2018

Royal-X Pan is first advertised in a BJP Almanac in the 1961 edition (published late 1960), it's also in the 1960 Kodak Limited Professional Catalogue as Sheet film and also as roll film - RX120. It's listed as 1600 ASA/BS Daylight 1250 ASA/BS Tungsten but that's beforeASA/BS speeds were cnged removing the safety facor.

There was an equivalent 35mm film Kodak R.60 High Speed Panchromatic Recording film but it wasn't sold for general use.

Ian

mshchem · Nov 26, 2018

For what it's worth. I checked my 1954 Kodak films book .No mention of Royal Pan X. Royal Pan was available only in sheets. Description , high speed, moderate contrast, low graininess, Exposure Index Daylight 200, Tungsten 160 .

dmr · Nov 26, 2018

I learned something today! I don't ever recall hearing of Kodak Royal-X pan at all and I was very active in the 1970s and 1980s. LOL, I guess it's because they did not make it in 35mm.

Kodak Royal-X Film - History ?

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