Kodak Retina IIc. New To Me, Some Questions.

[JPD]

Very nice, and that's why Retinas are so popular. Beautiful cameras, both to look at and the results they produce. Do you have the sunshade and filters for it?

 

[Cholentpot]

Very nice, and that's why Retinas are so popular. Beautiful cameras, both to look at and the results they produce. Do you have the sunshade and filters for it?

Nope.

Have it as is.

 

[Kyon Thinh]

I know it has been sometimes and you might have fixed it already, but I want to give some few information. In IIc/IIIc the shutter will be tripped before the film advance, so if you press the release button and can advance to the next frame but the shutter isn't tripped, then something is wrong with the shutter, maybe in the springs or the retarder inside the shutter. I suspect the cocking spring might have hard grease that when you press the release button, this spring doesn't bounce back to trip the retarder and gives you shutter speed . The other problem that can happen is the shutter hang and stay open until you cock the shutter or close the shutter by hand, the problem in this case will be with the shutter release shaft inside the camera which doesn't bounce back, this can be solve by install a spring to the shutter release shaft or give some space between the release button, the top cover and the top cocking rack guide.

 

[Cholentpot]

I know it has been sometimes and you might have fixed it already, but I want to give some few information. In IIc/IIIc the shutter will be tripped before the film advance, so if you press the release button and can advance to the next frame but the shutter isn't tripped, then something is wrong with the shutter, maybe in the springs or the retarder inside the shutter. I suspect the cocking spring might have hard grease that when you press the release button, this spring doesn't bounce back to trip the retarder and gives you shutter speed . The other problem that can happen is the shutter hang and stay open until you cock the shutter or close the shutter by hand, the problem in this case will be with the shutter release shaft inside the camera which doesn't bounce back, this can be solve by install a spring to the shutter release shaft or give some space between the release button, the top cover and the top cocking rack guide.

I had a CLA done and the camera is good as new. I have a roll waiting to scan and the negatives look tack sharp. Camera is one of the finest in my stable. And I have a large stable.

 

[Kyon Thinh]

I had a CLA done and the camera is good as new. I have a roll waiting to scan and the negatives look tack sharp. Camera is one of the finest in my stable. And I have a large stable.

It is a very good camera yeah, I got two recently and one of them always goes with me outside. It gives me outstanding result.

 

[jay moussy]

I ran into a IIIC by chance, Saturday, near the end of the house sale, made a low offer (got change out of twenty!), which was accepted.
Both shutter and winding seem smooth, but I need to check with an actual dummy film roll.

I got the feeling that to the 30-year-old seller, film cameras were from some distant past, and as useful as a floppy disk or such.
He also never opened the IIIC lens door, I would think!

 

[Cholentpot]

I ran into a IIIC by chance, Saturday, near the end of the house sale, made a low offer (got change out of twenty!), which was accepted.
Both shutter and winding seem smooth, but I need to check with an actual dummy film roll.

I got the feeling that to the 30-year-old seller, film cameras were from some distant past, and as useful as a floppy disk or such.
He also never opened the IIIC lens door, I would think!

It's a great camera with one big shortcoming. I hate the interlink. However, you do get used to it after a few rolls. It's worth the headache.

 

[albada]

All should be aware that the cocking racks in the Retina II/III-family rangefinders usually strip. This is a well-known weak-spot in these cameras. The cause is poor support at both ends of the brass rack, causing the rack to flex away from the steel pinions, putting excess force on the tips of its brass teeth, causing them to deform and finally strip.
An experienced camera repairman can brace both ends of the rack with self-made parts that I call the "steel plate" (for the lower teeth) and the "sigma" (for the right teeth). These added parts are internal (invisible from the outside), and have no effect on any of the camera's capabilities. After bracing the ends of the rack in this manner, it will probably never strip. The details of the added braces are here on my website: https://fixfilmcamera.com/BraceRetinaRack/BraceRack.html

A better solution would be to make replacement racks out of steel instead of brass (hint hint for somebody who has the necessary equipment).
Mark Overton

 

[Kyon Thinh]

All should be aware that the cocking racks in the Retina II/III-family rangefinders usually strip. This is a well-known weak-spot in these cameras. The cause is poor support at both ends of the brass rack, causing the rack to flex away from the steel pinions, putting excess force on the tips of its brass teeth, causing them to deform and finally strip.
An experienced camera repairman can brace both ends of the rack with self-made parts that I call the "steel plate" (for the lower teeth) and the "sigma" (for the right teeth). These added parts are internal (invisible from the outside), and have no effect on any of the camera's capabilities. After bracing the ends of the rack in this manner, it will probably never strip. The details of the added braces are here on my website: https://fixfilmcamera.com/BraceRetinaRack/BraceRack.html

A better solution would be to make replacement racks out of steel instead of brass (hint hint for somebody who has the necessary equipment).
Mark Overton

Mark, I was always mean to send you an email regarding this, just to say thank you to point out the problem. I have no tool to modify and create the sigma and plate, so I DIY with soldering lead and make a simple "dual support" which is just a spacer for the screw and a guide for the rack. You can see the lead from the photo, it is still working well after 15 rolls.

 

[jay moussy]

Hmm... with the IIIC I found recently, I thought I was in the clear, operated the film advance normally.
A few days later, I now find that, after placing the "36" and the diamond in the right position on the frame counter window, I can fire the shutter, but then, the advance lever does not want to move.
I re-read the instructions in the manual, to make sure I wasn't missing a step, and I cannot pass beyond that point.
Note: When I bring the frame counter to the proper position (36 and diamond), I can feel and hear a detent release of some sort, but I do not know what it is or means.

 

[Kyon Thinh]

Hmm... with the IIIC I found recently, I thought I was in the clear, operated the film advance normally.
A few days later, I now find that, after placing the "36" and the diamond in the right position on the frame counter window, I can fire the shutter, but then, the advance lever does not want to move.
I re-read the instructions in the manual, to make sure I wasn't missing a step, and I cannot pass beyond that point.
Note: When I bring the frame counter to the proper position (36 and diamond), I can feel and hear a detent release of some sort, but I do not know what it is or means.

Press the button which is closer to you than the shutter release, can you move the advance lever?

 

[jay moussy]

Press the button which is closer to you than the shutter release, can you move the advance lever?

Yes.

What does that mean?

 

[Kyon Thinh]

Yes.

What does that mean?

Did you press the shutter release lightly and not all the way until it hits the bottom?

 

[jay moussy]

Yes.

I can now operate advance lever.. but I feel it is skipping teeth, sadly. I have to wind in two or three steps.

gotta break for dinner time.

EDIT: ... and now back on!

 

[BobD]

The cocking rack (a metal strip with teeth along one edge) on these cameras has a tendency to get chewed up which causes advance problems. That may be the cause of the skipping teeth you mentioned.

 

[jay moussy]

Yes, thanks, it clearly feels that way, the skipping teeth match the classic description of the common fault on these, and was half-expecting it.
This camera sat for many, many years, and that also may contribute to being stiff.

The question is, am I up to open it up (how easy?), and then apply the known fixes, that is, a combination of straightening teeth, and making a new spacer to control gaps and such.

 

[BrianShaw]

The best thing I ever did, camera-wise, was to send a Retina to New Zealand for a complete overhaul. Postage was costly but the rest of the service was quite reasonable. The camera is a real gem. Think about it!

 

[BobD]

The question is, am I up to open it up (how easy?), and then apply the known fixes, that is, a combination of straightening teeth, and making a new spacer to control gaps and such.

I have done simple repairs on Retinas by following Chris Sherlock's videos but only when it was a video on the exact model with the same problem I had. I've done a lot of simple repairs on a lot of cameras and have tools. The Retina cameras are complex with lots of tiny parts and I wouldn't recommend diving into one if you aren't experienced. The usual result of first-time film camera repairs is a plastic bag full of camera parts and an unhappy camera owner.

 

[Cholentpot]

Here's an update. Got my IIc back from an overhaul and ran a roll of expired Tmax 400 through it.

Looking pretty good to me.

 

[albada]

Mark, I was always mean to send you an email regarding this, just to say thank you to point out the problem. I have no tool to modify and create the sigma and plate, so I DIY with soldering lead and make a simple "dual support" which is just a spacer for the screw and a guide for the rack. You can see the lead from the photo, it is still working well after 15 rolls.

In your photo, there is space between the back of the rack and its supporting post. That means your fix is working; it is pushing the rack into deeper mesh. On your rack, the fourth tooth from the left is shorter, indicating that the rack stripped at that point. But you got it to operate again by meshing more deeply. Congratulations!
Mark Overton

 

[Kyon Thinh]

Yes, thanks, it clearly feels that way, the skipping teeth match the classic description of the common fault on these, and was half-expecting it.
This camera sat for many, many years, and that also may contribute to being stiff.

The question is, am I up to open it up (how easy?), and then apply the known fixes, that is, a combination of straightening teeth, and making a new spacer to control gaps and such.

It is not easy, especially when it did not get serviced in many years.
You need to service not only the camera side, but also the shutter side. The grease and oil in the shutter would have built up along with dusts, making it harder to cock, and putting more strain on the rack. The fix Mark suggested is for prolonging the life of the rack, and you need to service both of them before attempting to do it, otherwise it won't get its potential.

 

[BrianShaw]