Kodak Reintroduces Ektachrome.

mshchem · Jan 7, 2017

MattKing said:
Kodak (neither Eastman, nor Alaris) no longer have chemistry manufacturing resources. It is all outsourced to companies like Tetenal, who do have those resources.

I get C-41 chemistry labeled made by Kodak (Alaris) of China. I would need to go look at the box to see the particulars. I have no idea where the powders (XTOL etc.) come from but it sure looks like all the B&W liquids are coming from Germany (Tetenal). I would love to see the return of a Kodak 5 L kit with all the proper baths. Fuji/Hunt 200 dollar 5L kit is great but seems to me to be a bit overpriced (maybe not) A quality Kodak of China kit would be welcome based on my impression of the Flexicolor chemicals.
Best Regards, Mike

Ai Print · Jan 7, 2017

RattyMouse said:
Ken has been missing for quite some time. He's a great guy and I hope he is doing well.

Indeed he is, I bought a 16x20 speed easel off of him a few years back that I use all the time. He was just a cruise missile constantly targeting Kodak so I would love to hear what he thinks of this new development.

fstop · Jan 7, 2017

AgX said:
I am most happy with our moderators sitting in their backseats and being busy in keeping our forums running smoothly.
Do not forget that recently only David and Suzanne were around regularly.

"Product Availabity" was just chosen to yield information on such subjects.
Our moderators could be less busy if we would not post several threads on the same issue and think about what to put in a thread title.

The mods weren't the ones complaining about the announcement of new 35 mm film in the 35mm forum, it was a couple of trolls back seat moderating. Nothing wrong with putting appropriate news in the appropriate forum.

Nzoomed · Jan 7, 2017

Chris Livsey said:
We don't know how long it is since the last coating was made it will be considerably longer, by years, than the discontinuation date. Master rolls can be stored for very many years under controlled conditions.
Here we are talking about new production of a coated master roll not production of product from the rolls and no doubt that was stopped to run down residual stock some time before the announcement as well.
It is an opportunity to introduce improvements particularly in dye stability which has seen a lot of work over recent years.

Well thats quite possible, their announcement seemed to indicate production would stop and the "inventory" would last to a given date.

I also believe that Kodak have now been reinvesting in new coating machinery, as they ironically have to increase production again!
A different coater will mean things will have to change if this is the case. Of course this would affect all products.

Either way, I dont really care about changes if they actually make the product better.

I wouldnt mind a "warmer" colour either, a bit like e100GX, but I still would prefer e100g for all round shooting, its colours were pretty punchy, I have not compared e100g to e100vs yet, because i have not shot e100vs, but when people who have seen my shots thought it was on e100vs, then I would imagine that e100vs must have lots of saturation.

If kodak do well with a new smaller market of E6 films, it would be awesome if they eventually could reintroduce two or more colour balances once again.

At the end of the day I will still be happy if we just have the one film in one speed, but im not going to shoot all my stockpile just yet until i can see the comparison of the final product!

Poisson Du Jour · Jan 7, 2017

faberryman said:
Has the price for Fuji E6 film been steady at $10-$11 per 36 exposure roll? That seems kind of high, but it has been so long since I bought any I don't even remember what it used to cost.

You must have last used Fuji a long, long time ago...

Currently 36 exposure RVP 50 is $33.00* (AUD)
In 120 format, RVP50 is $22.00*, Provia 100F $17.00.

Both formats/films (and many others) are cheaper on-line, and this is the major reason why street level retailers are struggling to shift film stock (and won't necessarily get hyperexcited at the prospect of a new Ektachrome) — because distributors call the shots on pricing, then retail costs are added. No such imposts buying online, but I think a big change is in the wings this year. This is because distributors have picked up the scent on price undercutting, and are restricting the release of film quantities to private online sellers e.g. eBay (except retailers with an online marketplace). At the moment we in Australia have a chronic shortage Provia 100F online and in retailers.

___________________________________________________________________________________________
* At some (not all) retailers, there are however discounts in place for professional users, typically 4% to 8%.

faberryman · Jan 7, 2017

I was quoting B&H prices in US Dollars. I'll have to check my local camera store to see if the even carry it.

Sal Santamaura · Jan 7, 2017

Nzoomed said:
...I also believe that Kodak have now been reinvesting in new coating machinery, as they ironically have to increase production again!...

Where is this coming from? Increase Eastman's production beyond what the massive line in Bldg. 38 is capable of? While Alaris shuts down Harrow? Ron, please step in here and, if you can, confirm or disabuse!

fstop · Jan 7, 2017

faberryman said:
Has the price for Fuji E6 film been steady at $10-$11 per 36 exposure roll? That seems kind of high, but it has been so long since I bought any I don't even remember what it used to cost.

BH has 5 pack Velvia 36 ex for $52.95 (or 10.59/roll) free shipping on orders over $49. Kodunk has to come in at the same price or close to it to be competitive.
10.59 is high. especially considering typical processing lab charges 11 base rate plus 3 for E-6 5.95 shipping is $30.54/roll for 36 ex. (85 cents /shot including film)
this is where DSLRs pay for themselves.My typical race event I make 500 shots.

Sal Santamaura · Jan 7, 2017

fstop said:
BH has 5 pack Velvia 36 ex for $52.95 (or 10.59/roll) free shipping on orders over $49. Kodunk has to come in at the same price or close to it to be competitive...

Assuming E100 turns out to be as good as or better than E100G, I'd pay more for it than Velveeta. Unless Crayola crayons were my main subject matter.

Poisson Du Jour · Jan 7, 2017

fstop said:
BH has 5 pack Velvia 36 ex for $52.95 (or 10.59/roll) free shipping on orders over $49. Kodunk has to come in at the same price or close to it to be competitive.
10.59 is high. especially considering typical processing lab charges 11 base rate plus 3 for E-6 5.95 shipping is $30.54/roll for 36 ex. (85 cents /shot including film)
this is where DSLRs pay for themselves.

What!? "High"!? $10.59 is dirt cheap IF it applied to a single roll. But it does not.
Pro-packs of Fuji emulsions have a very different pricing regime to individual rolls.

Photo Engineer · Jan 7, 2017

I am in no way interested nor qualified to work on this (new) product.

There is no new equipment involved. I have no idea where this imaginary equipment idea came from.

PE

fstop · Jan 7, 2017

Poisson Du Jour said:
What!? "High"!? $10.59 is dirt cheap IF it applied to a single roll. But it does not.
Pro-packs of Fuji emulsions have a very different pricing regime to individual rolls.

Single roll at BH is 10.59. 5 pack is 52.95.

Nzoomed · Jan 7, 2017

Sal Santamaura said:
Where is this coming from? Increase Eastman's production beyond what the massive line in Bldg. 38 is capable of? While Alaris shuts down Harrow? Ron, please step in here and, if you can, confirm or disabuse!

There was a media statement from Kodak last year that they were going to (ironically) upgrade the plant to handle higher volumes of film after there being a resurgence, I think this was mainly for motion picture sales, but would no doubt affect all film production.

I see the link is now dead, but see where I posted it in this thread last year:
http://www.kodak.com/ek/US/en/corp/...ence_of_KODAK_Motion_Picture_Film/default.htm

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

UPDATE:

Here is the cached page on google:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...re_film/default.htm+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=nz

Quoted:

"Kodak is also continuing to invest in upgrades to its film plant in Rochester, N.Y., in 2016, following extensive upgrades made in 2015, in order to meet growing demand for motion picture film. Many other companies, including equipment rental houses and labs around the world, have recently made strategic capital expenditures and infrastructure upgrades in the film space."

I can only assume this means that machinery and possibly coating heads etc are to be upgraded?

AgX · Jan 7, 2017

fstop said:
The mods weren't the ones complaining about the announcement of new 35 mm film in the 35mm forum, it was a couple of trolls back seat moderating. Nothing wrong with putting appropriate news in the appropriate forum.

I am one of those "back seat moderators"... not with this thread. But it could have been me.

Sal Santamaura · Jan 7, 2017

Nzoomed said:
...I also believe that Kodak have now been reinvesting in new coating machinery, as they ironically have to increase production again!
A different coater will mean things will have to change if this is the case. Of course this would affect all products...

Nzoomed said:
I can only assume this means that machinery and possibly coating heads etc are to be upgraded?

"Upgrading" elements of the Bldg. 38 line is likely a small change to its components, played up for marketing purposes. That is not the same as "a different coater," which sounds like a new line. Methinks they're just optimizing, not expanding.

Photo Engineer · Jan 7, 2017

A factory which ran 7 days / week, 24 hours / day and 365 days / year is now down to 1 shift and less than full weeks. Cutting back required changes. Speeding up again requires changes. What else can I say? Kodak has immense capacity at Rochester and Harrow. But, if it becomes unprofitable at Harrow, why not use toll coating in Colorado in their spare time.

The major increases here have been in MP products.

PE

joshgladstone · Jan 7, 2017

In their latest podcast, they talk about how they are actively looking into bringing back Kodakchrome, and other legacy film stocks. Wow.

Dead Link Removed
(at about 24:10)

Cholentpot · Jan 7, 2017

joshgladstone said:
In their latest podcast, they talk about how they are actively looking into bringing back Kodakchrome, and other legacy film stocks. Wow.

Dead Link Removed
(at about 24:10)

Kodachrome sounds a bit far fetched...anyone have a hat to eat if it happens?

Nzoomed · Jan 8, 2017

joshgladstone said:
In their latest podcast, they talk about how they are actively looking into bringing back Kodakchrome, and other legacy film stocks. Wow.

Dead Link Removed
(at about 24:10)

Thats awesome, I was almost going to bring up Koachrome, but was a bit afraid to lol.

Mind you, Kodak did hint at the return of Ektachrome a couple of years ago with smaller, more optimized runs for the current market and when asked if this could mean a return of Kodachrome, their words were basically - "we cant rule it out"

So It would not surprise me if Kodachrome did make a return in some shape or form.

Again, they would have a good market for kodachrome with motion picture sales.

Sal Santamaura said:
"Upgrading" elements of the Bldg. 38 line is likely a small change to its components, played up for marketing purposes. That is not the same as "a different coater," which sounds like a new line. Methinks they're just optimizing, not expanding.

Yes, optimizing is probably a better word, either way it appears Kodak are streamlining their production line to make it as efficient as possible for the current market.

Im sure its pretty inevitable that it will affect the film production in some shape or form, especially if the feed rates of the film base going through the coater have changed, hence the he need to re-formulate the emulsion.

MattKing said:
Kodak (neither Eastman, nor Alaris) no longer have chemistry manufacturing resources. It is all outsourced to companies like Tetenal, who do have those resources.

Tetenal only produce chemistry for processing AFAIK.

I would be very surprised if Kodak would outsource their chemistry production, there are not many companies geared up for synthesising such chemistry like the couplers and sensitizers etc.

Not only would it cost more, but im sure quality control could be a potential issue.

Perhaps PE can confirm this, but this would be a surprise to me.

I can only see kodak purchasing the intermediate chemistry like the precursors to the chemicals needed, etc.

Photo Engineer said:
The major increases here have been in MP products.

PE

Which is why I feel MP use is what is the driving force to return Ektachrome.

Ricardo Miranda · Jan 8, 2017

The problem with bringing back Kodachrome is not only at the factory with sourcing chemicals that might have been banned since 2009, but mostly with the labs. Where are you going to develop it when the last machine capable of doing so was scrapped in 2011?
Unless someone has retained a machine in the UK or Switzerland, it is going to be very difficult to develop Kodachrome.

RPC · Jan 8, 2017

There was an article in my local paper today about Kodak reviving Ektachrome, written by someone with the Washington Post.
I found the last three paragraphs interesting:

Kodak Alaris has enjoyed moderate growth in sales of its professional films, Mooney said.

The company thought about reviving Kodachrome as well but decided not to go there.

"Kodachrome will not be coming back," Mooney said. "We took a look at it and decided Ektachrome was the better choice."

(Mooney is T.J. Mooney, product business manager for "film capture" at Kodak Alaris, according to the article.)

Nzoomed · Jan 8, 2017

MattKing said:
Kodak (neither Eastman, nor Alaris) no longer have chemistry manufacturing resources. It is all outsourced to companies like Tetenal, who do have those resources.

Tetenal only produce chemistry for processing AFAIK.

I would be very surprised if Kodak would outsource their chemistry production, there are not many companies geared up for synthesising such chemistry like the couplers and sensitizers etc.

Not only would it cost more, but im sure quality control could be a potential issue.

Perhaps PE can confirm this, but this would be a surprise to me.

I can only see kodak purchasing the intermediate chemistry like the precursors to the

Ricardo Miranda said:
The problem with bringing back Kodachrome is not only at the factory with sourcing chemicals that might have been banned since 2009, but mostly with the labs. Where are you going to develop it when the last machine capable of doing so was scrapped in 2011?
Unless someone has retained a machine in the UK or Switzerland, it is going to be very difficult to develop Kodachrome.

I think the costs of building a machine to process Kodachrome would only be a small percentage of the overall costs in resurrecting Kodachrome.
They could probably just modify existing motion picture lab equipment for processing the film.
Either way, one small lab at Kodak would be all that's needed for the world wide volume of kodachrome processing for the foreseeable future anyway.

Nzoomed · Jan 8, 2017

RPC said:
There was an article in my local paper today about Kodak reviving Ektachrome, written by someone with the Washington Post.
I found the last three paragraphs interesting:

Kodak Alaris has enjoyed moderate growth in sales of its professional films, Mooney said.

The company thought about reviving Kodachrome as well but decided not to go there.

"Kodachrome will not be coming back," Mooney said. "We took a look at it and decided Ektachrome was the better choice."

(Mooney is T.J. Mooney, product business manager for "film capture" at Kodak Alaris, according to the article.)

OK, well the audio clip says they are basically exploring what it would take to bring it back.

At the end of the video, he says Ektachrome wont be the last product to return, so its anybody's guess what we may see come back!

This is exciting news putting anything Kodachrome aside...

Either way, Im happy just to see Ektachrome back.

This was the article that hinted at this some time back.
http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=55564

MattKing · Jan 8, 2017

Nzoomed said:
Tetenal only produce chemistry for processing AFAIK.

I would be very surprised if Kodak would outsource their chemistry production, there are not many companies geared up for synthesising such chemistry like the couplers and sensitizers etc.

Not only would it cost more, but im sure quality control could be a potential issue.

Perhaps PE can confirm this, but this would be a surprise to me.

I can only see kodak purchasing the intermediate chemistry like the precursors to the chemicals needed, etc.

I think we have a difference of nomenclature.
When I use "chemistry", I'm referring to the processing chemicals.
I think you are referring to the constituent parts used in film manufacture.
When I see "production" I think of manufacture for resale.
Whereas you are using "production" to mean for internal use.

joshgladstone · Jan 8, 2017

I would guess Plus-X would be much more doable. Or Ektachrome IR. But if they're going to control the whole development/scanning pipeline, then they could take it on themselves to be that one lab that will process Kodachrome. I'm not holding my breath though, that would be a massive undertaking. I'm just happy to be getting ektachrome back. And in the meantime, I can shoot that stuff that's been in my fridge!

Kodak Reintroduces Ektachrome.

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