Kodak Reintroduces Ektachrome.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Ok, so all out madness and speculation is going to start here in the forum? I'm all in then!!

Bring back..

Kodachrome 25, 64, 200, the never released Kodachrome 400
Ektachrome 64T, 320T, Elite Chrome "Extra Color", EPP 100, EIR
Kodak Gold 100
Plus-X
Verichrome Pan
Panatomic-X
Royal-X Pan
TMZ
Tri-X Pan Professional
and of course Technical Pan

... i want all of them in 220 format and in 70mm perforated rolls as well...

Yeaaaaaahhhhhhhh

From that list, I used and liked very much Plus-X, and Tech Pan. But wouldn't it be fantastic if they brought back HIE? Out of curiosity, how many out there would like to see it come back? I know I would!

 

[pdeeh]

Personally, I think Kodak will have failed bitterly if they do not reintroduce the 1950s.

 

[Nzoomed]

Personally, I think Kodak will have failed bitterly if they do not reintroduce the 1950s.

So what films do you want to see back?
As we all know, its harder to bring back older films without serious R&D due to issues like banned chemicals etc, you wouldnt necessarily have the exact same film you would remember for these reasons.

Are you talking about B&W films or colour?

 

[Prest_400]

Kodachrome is not in the current plans. AFAIK, it used no banned chemistry!

A pilot coater will have to be revived to test small batches. Whether this is in KRL or the plant remains to be seen. AFAIK, J8 is still in use in B-59 and the 21" machine still exists in the plant. J8 can coat 8 layers at a time or with tandem coating, up to 16 layers.

PE

How ironic! Then again, bringing back Kodachrome and its developing infrastructure would be much more difficult than just Ektachrome. Also, many people charge against film in general because of its chemistry (one of those myths too).
Of course someone must have given a thought at it, but dismissed because of what it is.

There was a podcast in Inside Analog Photo (sadly lost now?) about 2009-10 maybe, and I don't remember if it was Bob shanebrook the interviewee, but he mentioned that keeping Kodak E6 around was thanks to some downsizing they were able to do. B38 facilities in mind. Don't know if that Pilot facilities could give final product, which is what Ferrania is doing after all. Though I don't envision Kodak (Alaris) releasing small batches of legacy products. Then the extensive R&D for all of them. Mirko of Adox reminds how even introducing a B&W product is a sizeable endeavor.

...
Oh, and add EIR-Aerochrome to the list.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Personally, I think Kodak will have failed bitterly if they do not reintroduce the 1950s.

And Elvis too...

 

[Nzoomed]

How ironic! Then again, bringing back Kodachrome and its developing infrastructure would be much more difficult than just Ektachrome. Also, many people charge against film in general because of its chemistry (one of those myths too).
Of course someone must have given a thought at it, but dismissed because of what it is.

There was a podcast in Inside Analog Photo (sadly lost now?) about 2009-10 maybe, and I don't remember if it was Bob shanebrook the interviewee, but he mentioned that keeping Kodak E6 around was thanks to some downsizing they were able to do. B38 facilities in mind. Don't know if that Pilot facilities could give final product, which is what Ferrania is doing after all. Though I don't envision Kodak (Alaris) releasing small batches of legacy products. Then the extensive R&D for all of them. Mirko of Adox reminds how even introducing a B&W product is a sizeable endeavor.

...
Oh, and add EIR-Aerochrome to the list.

Re-introducing Ektachrome is certainly a far easier task than Kodachrome for the reasons you mention.
But for one thing this is showing that Kodak mean serious business, because its not just a simple task either.

My hats really go off the the team at Ferrania, because they are essentially doing the same thing, with a team of only around 6 people on a coater that has not been used in at least 11 years or more and having to create their chemistry from scratch.
To top it off, the film they are making is now on a smaller coater than what it was last produced on, and this film was last made around sometime around 2002-2003!

Ferrania are truly achieving the impossible.

 

[fstop]

Why reinvent old film when they have the opportunity to develop (no pun intended) new film.The issue isn't with production, distribution, chemicals etc. the problem is with sales.The have to be able to sell at enough of a profit this new product to justify its existence.Slide film is a niche within a niche.
No new cameras to support and promote sales.This is looking more and more like a knee jerk reaction to a fad in retro culture that could end in disaster when the neophytes can't find skilled repairmen to get their old clunkers working.
Kodunk dropped Kodachrome because of lack of sales, there aren't more people interested in film now, the numbers are static. People moved on to other formats and some new people took up film, but there is not a rise in film interest that I can see.Evidence of this is the steady drop in prices of used cameras, people can't give them away.

I'd like to see a top performing slide film on the market,but at the price point it is at now, you won't see participation increase.

 

[Prest_400]

By the way, I listened the Kodakery podcast and there is indeed a bit of excessive "We are investigating Kodachrome" with a more moderate "will keep looking for other possible reintroductions". I'm not betting anything for Kodachrome but it would be crazy if it is seen again, say a decade from now. But KR64 was 1% of EK still film in '09.

No new cameras to support and promote sales.This is looking more and more like a knee jerk reaction to a fad in retro culture that could end in disaster when the neophytes can't find skilled repairmen to get their old clunkers working.

Going back to classical economic theory, then it will be time when someone makes them. Some models have even appreciated, specifically some Medium Format cameras. Fuji/Voigtlander saw their niche and ran a batch of 5000 medium format cameras (that was in '08 though), but someone could very well do something similar. Mint introduced an instant TLR a while ago.

The mechanical cameras endure better the passing of time and may have extensive support. Old Rolleiflexes still work fine and Mr. Fleenor has quite a backlog servicing them.

Eastman Kodak will introduce their Super 8 camera, and that has a lot to do with the Ektachrome reintroduction. Still film is not the focus nor volume here and I don't think Alaris runs the initiative.

I suggested back then that it would just take some rich mogul, tycoon or magnate of some sorts with enough spare cash to do all of this. Just a few millions to drop for a few exotic products being developed.

 

[Nzoomed]

Why reinvent old film when they have the opportunity to develop (no pun intended) new film.The issue isn't with production, distribution, chemicals etc. the problem is with sales.The have to be able to sell at enough of a profit this new product to justify its existence.Slide film is a niche within a niche.
No new cameras to support and promote sales.This is looking more and more like a knee jerk reaction to a fad in retro culture that could end in disaster when the neophytes can't find skilled repairmen to get their old clunkers working.
Kodunk dropped Kodachrome because of lack of sales, there aren't more people interested in film now, the numbers are static. People moved on to other formats and some new people took up film, but there is not a rise in film interest that I can see.Evidence of this is the steady drop in prices of used cameras, people can't give them away.

I'd like to see a top performing slide film on the market,but at the price point it is at now, you won't see participation increase.

Well sales = demand, at this point, there is no benefit in designing a whole new film, this takes considerable R&D as mentioned before.
But in saying that, I look at it as evolution, newer and newer generations of film get tweaked over time, so improvements are gradually made.

This is hopefully what we will see with the new E100 film stock this year.

The hard work was done many years ago so films such as Ektachrome have already been well engineered, not to say there is no more room for improvement, but it really depends on what $$$ Kodak can ultimately spend on doing this.

There was nothing wrong with the old product, and it will bring back alot of E6 shooters again, as many did not want to move over to fuji.
I think we will see more people pick up their cameras again with this announcement.

As far as cameras go, there are literally MILLIONS of cameras out there that can still be used, as we have seen, Kodak have a new Super8 camera, whats it to say that kodak wont release a new 35mm camera either?

I think Kodak are doing the right thing going retro, perhaps one day they will bring back a new generation of the box brownie camera also?
Its anyones guess, but there are plenty of cameras out there, and you dont need an expensive camera either, even a holga can take some amazing photos!

 

[pdeeh]

And Elvis too...

yeah but then they have to reintroduce the Saturn V first because, as we all know, Elvis is alive and well and living on the Moon (with Buddy Holly and the Big Bopper).
It's going to be a busy next few years for Kodak.

 

[AgX]

as we have seen, Kodak have a new Super8 camera, whats it to say that kodak wont release a new 35mm camera either?

There were no S-8 cameras made for decades. Until Logmar introduced a new one about 2 years ago.
(So it was not even Kodak who started that.)

Concerning 35mm cameras, they had had been offered new until a few years ago by Arri. And Aaton is still offering a model!

There sure is no need for a new model.


Concerning the amateur market, there still is the model from Lomography.

 

[Nzoomed]

There were no S-8 cameras made for decades. Until Logmar introduced a new one about 2 years ago.
(So it was not even Kodak who started that.)

Concerning 35mm cameras, they had had been offered new until a few years ago by Arri. And Aaton is still offering a model!

There sure is no need for a new model.


Concerning the amateur market, there still is the model from Lomography.

Well thats right, and lots more people are playing around with cheap, small cameras that fit in your pocket, I have to say that I use my Olympus XA3 far more than my Pentax spotmatic!

If kodak were ever to introduce a camera, I dont expect it to be any high end SLR, but rather a practical and compact camera at a low cost.
As you say, there are still cameras available, so I dont expect them to release a camera any time soon unless it offers something different to what we have seen before in a camera.

 

[AgX]

Have you ever thought of the costs involved with cine 35mm?

Anything fairly beyond the concept of that Lomography Lomokino will be beyond the means of an amateur.
Even S-8 is expensive to a point that it is prohibitive.

We have a thread how often we come across someone using a analogue still-camera. I assume we can save such effort for cine-cameras.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

I'd like to see a top performing slide film on the market,but at the price point it is at now, you won't see participation increase.

A "top performing slide film on the market"!? Blinkers off, please. We are not in want of it with the choices we have.
I'll say it again, for the sake of the position of E6 as a sinking boat: use what is on the market now, rather than what is for all intents and purposes speculated for the future.

And, a rule of economics forbids you paying a little and getting a lot.

 

[flavio81]

This is looking more and more like a knee jerk reaction to a fad in retro culture that could end in disaster when the neophytes can't find skilled repairmen to get their old clunkers working.

There are no real secrets in repairing cameras, one can read Ed Romney and other books, along with the huge information out there on the inner working of many cameras, and learn. 10 years ago I wouldn't have dared to repair a camera, but at the end I tried and i've repaired a few. Many cameras, no matter the brand, are similar if they are of a similar type (i.e. focal plane shutter SLR).

Many cameras thought as "non working" only need to be un-jammed and then given a bit of a lubrication job to be working again. Bad electronics are usually due to simple things such as corrosion, thus no special spares needed.

As pointed out, due to the triumph of digital photography there is a massive overflow of cameras out there, including ones in great shape, so i don't see how this could be a problem.

 

[fstop]

Some people aren't using what is on the market, they stopped using film when 64 speed Kodachrome was dropped.Kodak is not getting them back.Hardcore Kodachrome users never used Eektachrome or Fuji.
The retro users aren't going to drop $30+/roll for film and processing.

 

[Photo Engineer]

There is a difference between reformulating for reintroduction and re-engineering from scratch to prepare a new film.

PE

 

[fstop]

There are no real secrets in repairing cameras, one can read Ed Romney and other books, along with the huge information out there on the inner working of many cameras, and learn. 10 years ago I wouldn't have dared to repair a camera, but at the end I tried and i've repaired a few. Many cameras, no matter the brand, are similar if they are of a similar type (i.e. focal plane shutter SLR).

Many cameras thought as "non working" only need to be un-jammed and then given a bit of a lubrication job to be working again. Bad electronics are usually due to simple things such as corrosion, thus no special spares needed.

As pointed out, due to the triumph of digital photography there is a massive overflow of cameras out there, including ones in great shape, so i don't see how this could be a problem.

You know why hobbies such as model trains are dying? because it takes mechanical aptitude and motor skills, much the same as repairing cameras. I've made a hobby of repairing cameras, I have all the cameras I need. The newbies who can afford $30+/roll aren't going to buy a "used" camera, they are spoiled, they want brand new stuff.
But what would you build? A camera that appeals to the masses or to the handful of purist snobs.What was sold in large numbers in the mid to late 70s?

 

[flavio81]

Some people aren't using what is on the market, they stopped using film when 64 speed Kodachrome was dropped.Kodak is not getting them back.Hardcore Kodachrome users never used Eektachrome or Fuji.

I can't understand this reasoning, because the reason K64 was dropped was that over the 1990s and 2000s, pro photographers AND amateurs switched en masse to Ektachrome and E6 films. E6 films improved a lot in palette, saturation, and stability; this combined with quicker processing, sealed the fate of K-films.

 

[faberryman]

Why? I don't remember.

 

[Nzoomed]

Have you ever thought of the costs involved with cine 35mm?

Anything fairly beyond the concept of that Lomography Lomokino will be beyond the means of an amateur.
Even S-8 is expensive to a point that it is prohibitive.

We have a thread how often we come across someone using a analogue still-camera. I assume we can save such effort for cine-cameras.

I totally agree, the costs are huge, thats why reversal films like Ektachrome will be mainly used by amateurs, and the ECN2 stocks will continue to be used in the mainstream industry.

I dont see there being a huge use for 35mm cine use with Ektachrome 100, but Kodak are making great effort to make super8 available to students, and this seems logical that its a good stepping stone for students to learn on, but they are also targeting the professional market to some degree also with the new camera.

However some film makers have experimented with E6 and cross processed the stuff. Look at the film Three Kings for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Kings_(1999_film)
This was shot on Ektachrome and presumably C41 processed.

 

[flavio81]

You know why hobbies such as model trains are dying? because it takes mechanical aptitude and motor skills, much the same as repairing cameras.

You are implying that there are no more people with mechanical aptitude and motor skills. This is simply not true. New generations, thanks to internet and new technologies, are more involved with technology in general, this includes old technology as well. For example some of the people out there at "diyaudio" designing and building tube amplifiers, are not over 50, but young people in their twenties.

 

[cmacd123]

Lots of super8 shooters were very disappointed when Kodachrome 40 was dropped, my question was Why kodachrome 64 was not used for cine use instead? Does anybody know?
I would expect any return of kodachrome would be in a single film speed suitable for cine and camera use to save costs, so I expect would be in ISO 64 or ISO 100.

This would be a significant investment for Kodak to make,.

Zilions of Super8 Cameras were made expecting an ISO 40 TUNGSTEN balanced Reversal film. thus KMA was the natural product for super 8. I doubt if many still shooters would want to bother with using K40T with the requirement to use an 85A filter outside.

the 40T speed came out as Regular 8 film was often Kodachrome 25 Daylight, and Kodachome Type A (40) with a 85A filter also is shot at 25 daylight. if one were wanting to shoot indoors and out they used the type a film and slipped the filter on and off. In almost all Super 8 Cameras the 85A filter is built in and has a control to take it out of the image path. often attaching a movie light to the camera, swung the filter out.

Many of these cameras could not read a Daylight 64 coded cartridge and expose it correctly.

 

[Ai Print]

I guess I see the opportunities here differently, every so called problem as an awesome opportunity for innovative thinking.

While some of the millions of fine mechanical film cameras out in the world will need new parts, it is really not all that hard to make them based on modern technologies we currently have and ones to come. Sure, we could possibly have some new cameras get introduced but I really do think we are fine with what we have, especially if someone takes the initiative to buy up and restore these cameras to sell at a modest markup depending on if it was just refurbished or flat out pimped out like a classic car or bicycle.

I also think that it stands to reason that labs that do not currently offer slide processing could fairly easily re-orient and re-tool to provide E6 processing if demand rises high enough. In the meantime, every time I read a thread on other sites that someone says there no E6 labs left, someone comes up with at least 3-4 I have never even heard of. So I bet Kodak is already on top of providing an innovative and fresh way for people to know about these labs once the Ektachrome ball is in play later this year.

Kodak has surprised people here with the announcement, so obviously they are thinking things through and making moves when and if the time is right. I would implore those who have the inspiration and foresight to innovate their thinking into the modern niche film era along with them, maybe not put so much focus on what film to bring back next but how to fully realize and creativly implement new ways of outreach in the current portfolio and how to make all of our analog products as stable and utilized as possible.

Kodak did the photo world a solid on this one, lets celebrate that, lift them up because after all they have been through, man oh man do they deserve it.

 

[Nzoomed]

There is a difference between reformulating for reintroduction and re-engineering from scratch to prepare a new film.

PE

I completley agree and this was the point i was trying to make earlier.