Kodak Reintroduces Ektachrome.

Discussion in 'Product Availability' started by eyetwist, Jan 5, 2017.

  1. Lionel1972

    Lionel1972 Member

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    If I were ADOX I would try to team up with Kodak to reintroduce Cibachrome since I'm sure many people would be more inclined to shoot slide film if they could print directly from slides on Cibachrome.
    Kodak needs to increase the potential market for their reintroduction of Ektachrome as much as possible.
     
  2. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    The bleach uses quite toxic chemistry. Are you prepared for that go-round?

    PE
     
  3. Poisson Du Jour

    Poisson Du Jour Member
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    PE's comment is correct, additional to the repeated replacement of machine parts affected by the process, EPA licensing (horrendously costly), specialist printers, ancillary costs...

    But the other thing is the customer cost of Ciba/Ilfochrome Classic. Progressive price rises seen in the period 2003 to 2009 literally burnt both edges of the bridge and priced it way, way out of reach of those who would most desire to use it, beside cashed-up professionals. Are you, or some other party, assuming Ciba/Ilfochrome Classic, is or could be resurrected as an economical way to print? It is not. You cannot print this stuff beautifully at any size and charge peanuts for it: it would be very expensive (more than it was up to 2010). What about the market? With the damage done, the market and interest from professionals is no longer there: they have moved on. Intensive market research and testing would be requisite before committing to a wholesale release and hoping for a pot of gold, and that alone could take years.
     
  4. AgX

    AgX Member

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    Who has to licence what at cost at EPA? EPA is a US authority, not a german one.

    Maybe you mean paying for installing safety devices to comply with a authority standards. But over here these would not be different from those concerning more standard photo-chemicals.
     
  5. Poisson Du Jour

    Poisson Du Jour Member
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    Probably a different name in Germany and elsewhere. I was referring to the Australian Environment Protection Authority and the $38,000 licencing that was levied for disposal of hazardous chemical waste at the old Ilfochrome Classic printing facility, along with odour and noise abatement for a place that was surrounded on all sides by residential housing. The lab was demolished early in May 2011, and a very nice set of modern town houses built on the site. Residents nearby were not sorry at all to see the lab close which was soon after discontinuation of Ilfochrome Classic as a print media.
     
  6. AgX

    AgX Member

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    Disposal of the relicts of a facilty is something else than building or running a facility. And disposal of chemical waste and its cost is related to any chemical facility producing waste.
     
  7. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    The Ilfochrome chemistry is quite bad compared to RA4 or C41 or even E6 (but that is only a bit worse due to the greater number of chemicals).

    PE
     
  8. Rudeofus

    Rudeofus Subscriber

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    How would you rate it compared to Pyrogallol and Ammonium Bichromate, both still sold by Formulary and used in much higher quantities than the quinoxaline compound in dye bleach ?
     
  9. Photo Engineer

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    Rudi, none of them are good for you, but the DB catalysts are known to be carcinogens. There are a number of them BTW, and Ciba used several.

    I have used all 3, but only reluctantly. I do not have the Pyrogallol, but I did use some Bichromates on and off for a variety of tasks.

    PE
     
  10. Poisson Du Jour

    Poisson Du Jour Member
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    Squamous- and basal-cell carninomas wear a regular feature on the hands of the head printer of Ilfochrome Classic; he also had emphysema and visual disturbances. None of us saw or heard of him again after 2012.
     
  11. Rudeofus

    Rudeofus Subscriber

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    Dye bleach contains significant amounts of Sulfuric Acid, which makes it unlikely that anyone getting in contact with it would not immediately wash it off. How did your printer get in contact with this soup ?
     
  12. Photo Engineer

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    Rudi, this can happen accidentally just by getting an unnoticed splash. But some of the catalysts are volatile and some were coated in the print material and some were in the developer. The products varied.

    PE
     
  13. Rudeofus

    Rudeofus Subscriber

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    I realize that splashes happen, and many people would tend to ignore splashes of stop bath, BLIX or fixer for a while before washing them off. But splashes of dye bleach are entirely different, apart from all carcinogenic ingredients this one is loaded with Sulfuric Acid, which is next to impossible to ignore. I can not imagine anyone who would not immediately wash that off.

    But I guess my theory is one thing, and practical experience is often very different :-/
     
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  15. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Rudi, you are right in one way, but how many people know chemistry. I've seen and heard of some pretty outrageous behavior in the DR by those who have no knowledge of the chemistry that is around them.

    PE
     
  16. Rudeofus

    Rudeofus Subscriber

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    People are pretty quick at learning chemistry when they have 5% Sulfuric Acid on their skin. This isn't something one can ignore. No way people wouldn't wash this off at once, even if they had no idea about the dangers of Quinoxaline.
     
  17. Photo Engineer

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    We had a young lady spill conc H2SO4 on herself in lab and not say anything about it. When her dress began dissolving, the instructor grabbed her and put her in a lab sink with running water on her, and someone called an ambulance. Her explanation... she was afraid to report it, didn't know the consequences (in spite of our warnings beforehand), and then she went totally off the wall and panicked when her clothing began to dissolve. I was in the upstairs lab and only had a peripheral view of all of this, but my good friend Fred was the instructor.

    PE
     
  18. trendland

    trendland Member
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    :whistling::whistling: :whistling:.......if we would just talk about bw film reversal ? There have been some developing sets from Orwo within the past. From an invironmental perspective it wasn,t so much strange (in the past).
    But to handle that stuff with care was a question to survive in your dark room.
    Cibachrome is in comparison indeed its own class.
    PE is obviously best involved with that what he stated. I didn't would tell there are issues where this isn't the case. (generaly).
    with regards
     
  19. trendland

    trendland Member
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    But then it is allways too late isn't it?:redface:
    with regards

    PS : The pannic tool in darkroom is a kanister Kodak Xtol (mixed in max.delution)
     
  20. trendland

    trendland Member
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    By the way : Robin Williams as "Symor Parrish" made his own experience with accidental lab chems in
    "One hour Photo" LOOK :
     
  21. trendland

    trendland Member
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    24 hour photo img 14.JPG.jpg
    Handle lab chems better with extreme care friends !
     
  22. AgX

    AgX Member

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    Trendland, I got no idea in what way your post above quoting mine is related to my post.
     
  23. mshchem

    mshchem Subscriber
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    I've noticed that as well. :smile: Enthusiasm !
     
  24. trendland

    trendland Member
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    If I understood this theme here right it goes about the danger of chemicals in concern of discontinued processes - cibachrome for example.
    What I intended to cover out is the relation of danger. If we just remember bw reversal processes -
    (Agfa Scala was also one of the last) we found out that from environmental issues and from concerns of healthy in darkroom there is a realy difference to normal bw developing (PE metioned bleach substances of some color reversal processes).
    The simular (of course bw related - therefore different substances) are the problem in bw reversal.
    And the issue of discontinued color processes from the past is to me that you have an other class of danger there.
    The simple opposite are modern bw processes. Here substances from the past are not longer in use because Kodak/Ilford reformulated their main formulas.
    So we are most talking about to avoid methol in bw processing today. As one of the last chemicals
    regulators will have it on their scedule next.
    Kodak Xtol I simply intended to mention as an example for people in overdriven fear about bw chemicals.
    So in short again : The relation of possible trouble with different "classes" of chems used in darkroom could be immense.
    Perhaps I missunderstood your post Agx and you have just stated it in concerning of regulation of chems in different countrys - I now have an Idea of ???

    with regards
     
  25. AgX

    AgX Member

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    So far the substances banned endangered much less the processor or even the consumer, but the people in the film plants and its environment.
    On the other hand at these places chances for protection and recovery, meanwhile, are greatest. So one may argue on such restrictions.

    Tackling critical processing chemicals at least for amateur use would be another issue. But seen the upset already about classic materials having gone or being reformulated with resulting different characteristics this likely would induce even more critic.
     
  26. fdonadio

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