Kodak Reintroduces Ektachrome.

[Arklatexian]

A 5 : 1 ratio was the illusion to simple tv news production with film (before video). Executive producers wanted to see not more than 6 :1 = 6 minutes film raw material for 1 minute TV news. Some editors got a ratio of 6 :1 but mostly 8 : 1 was also quite OK. At 12 : 1 - 15 :1 they
got a call to come directly to the chief. (because of the costs).
I heard about some editors were fired at 20 : 1.... (it was never caused from camera operators they should be able to work 1,5 - 2 : 1.)
Todays video television news are working with ratios of 20 - 40 : 1 (or higher) everything is allowed.
But your ratio you mentioned with film is with low budget production?
A class films often have a lenght of
4,5 hours, 5,5 hours.....Coppola was nearly bunkrupt on filmworks to Appocalypse Now due to final version of more than 8 hours and highest ratios.
So you have a ratio of 6 : 1 with special scenes sometimes 3 :1 / 4:1
because of great expensive effort (not from the film costs) and the rest is on the play of the actors and the director. 12:1 / 8:1 / 16 :1....
But don't forget the final lenght of a cinema movie. Best results in filmwork have a nearly double lenght. (The film should be in the near of 100min. and the cutting version has 185 min) so it comes to a final post production (and much of deleted scenes).
The meaning to the ratio is factor 2 - 4 (because you have to realize the concern of the final version)
So if you are just regarding the lenght of the film you know from cinema you may count in real ratios of 24:1 / 16:1 / 32:1 / (with factor x2 - from ratios given above.

with regards

PS : Coppola was co - producer and spent some private money he earned from "The Godfather" (nearly 2 million bucks) into production. But the studios cut the budget as they realized Coppolas ratio went higher and higher and he was going to burn their full money.
(ratio much over 100:1)
PPS : He gave the full rest of his private money including his house, the insurance of his mom and the money for his childs (education fond) into his crazy filmwork.
And he got his money back (with factor x 25.....)

I get the impression from all of this is that no one really needs for me to buy a 36exp, 135 Ektachrome that I don't even know if I can get decent processing with mounting from Kodak or any one else. It may be a looooog time before I can start shooting slides/dias/transpariences again and I don't have a loooog time to wait. Back to B&W............Regards!

 

[bvy]

 

[Photo Engineer]

Heh. Until this moment, I didn't even know Kodak had anything to do with cryptocurrency.

All these side ventures... makes me truly wonder who is going to be producing film 10, 20 years from now.

No one probably will be making film (or plates, or paper) except those working in home darkrooms.

PE

 

[Photo Engineer]

BVY, good to see the charge is up a bit on your phone.

PE

 

[bvy]

BVY, good to see the charge is up a bit on your phone.

PE

I'm hoping the new Ektachrome comes with a Kodak iPhone charger...

 

[Theo Sulphate]

And then, what did HE say? That had to be some time before the 1830s was it not?......Regards!

He told me to test the gear-driven shutter at its 1/1250 setting. Yea, verily I did and saw that it was good.

 

[Ste_S]

Pilot scale equipment ?
What's people's take on where Kodak are with this ? I'm not exactly getting a coming soon feeling from this update

 

[zen_zanon]

In this day and age, where companies routinely release inferior/incomplete products to consumers...am I the only one happy that Kodak is really trying to bring out the best possible product right from the get go?

There's a whole new wave of film photographers that have probably never even shot slide film before. I imagine Kodak is wanting to make sure their first experience hooks them to continue shooting slide. There's also the generations that have shot slide, but perhaps haven't done so in a decade or more. Does Kodak want to release an inferior product to them? Hell no. These types of consumers need the best possible experience from that first roll.

Sure they've missed their targets...but I can't even imagine how difficult it is to resurrect this film. Unless we get to mid-2019 and there's still no new Ektachrome, I'll be happily waiting and trusting Kodak is working hard to get this stuff released...and not only get it released, but get it released as an excellent product that will push people's desire to shoot slide film to new heights.

 

[BrianShaw]

In this day and age, where companies routinely release inferior/incomplete products to consumers...am I the only one happy that Kodak is really trying to bring out the best possible product right from the get go?

...

Assumption... that may-or-may-not be true... that they are REALLY trying to make the best-possible product. May I suggest a re-phrase: ...am I the only one happy that Kodak isn't quickly releasing inferior/bad product. Some of us are taking a rather stoic approach... but I'm very glad that you are so up-beat about it.

 

[zen_zanon]

Assumption... that may-or-may-not be true... that they are REALLY trying to make the best-possible product. May I suggest a re-phrase: ...am I the only one happy that Kodak isn't quickly releasing inferior/bad product.

Good fix, let's roll with that!

 

[removedacct1]

No one probably will be making film (or plates, or paper) except those working in home darkrooms.

PE

You really believe none of the current manufacturers will survive the next ten years? You think this current resurgence in silver-based imaging technologies is going to fizzle out that quickly? I have the impression the industry is healthier than that.

However, it is because of my concerns about the long term viability of film manufacture that I’ve learned to make wet plate negatives. Unless Collodion and silver nitrate also disappear from suppliers (very unlikely), then I’m going to be free to continue my photographic work regardless of what Kodak or anyone else does/doesn’t do.

 

[RattyMouse]

In this day and age, where companies routinely release inferior/incomplete products to consumers...am I the only one happy that Kodak is really trying to bring out the best possible product right from the get go?

There's a whole new wave of film photographers that have probably never even shot slide film before. .

With Provia and Velvia available, there's no reason not to try slide film today. Waiting for a film that may or may not appear seems odd to say the least.

I imagine Kodak is wanting to make sure their first experience hooks them to continue shooting slide. There's also the generations that have shot slide, but perhaps haven't done so in a decade or more. Does Kodak want to release an inferior product to them? Hell no. These types of consumers need the best possible experience from that first roll.

Sure they've missed their targets...but I can't even imagine how difficult it is to resurrect this film. Unless we get to mid-2019 and there's still no new Ektachrome, I'll be happily waiting and trusting Kodak is working hard to get this stuff released...and not only get it released, but get it released as an excellent product that will push people's desire to shoot slide film to new heights.

The time it is taking to bring Ektachrome back is representative of how much skill and resources Kodak has lost. It is staggering to consider how they once had over 100,000 people, ALL working on film, to what they are today: 6,000 people, with the vast majority NOT working on film.

 

[warden]

The time it is taking to bring Ektachrome back is representative of how much skill and resources Kodak has lost.

That might very well be.
... or it's representative of the difficulty of perfecting a new film, no matter how many brilliant engineers you throw at it.
... or it's representative of management making public promises without understanding engineering challenges and realistic timelines.
... or it's representative of a variety of other issues that might be out of their control.
Or a complex combination of all of the above, which wouldn't surprise me a bit.

Still, I'm happy to see some actual images made with a new Kodak slide film today. Very cool. When it's ready I'll buy plenty of it. Until then I have other slide films to use. It's all good.

 

[RattyMouse]

That might very well be.
... or it's representative of the difficulty of perfecting a new film, no matter how many brilliant engineers you throw at it.
... or it's representative of management making public promises without understanding engineering challenges and realistic timelines.
... or it's representative of a variety of other issues that might be out of their control.
Or a complex combination of all of the above, which wouldn't surprise me a bit.

Still, I'm happy to see some actual images made with a new Kodak slide film today. Very cool. When it's ready I'll buy plenty of it. Until then I have other slide films to use. It's all good.

This isnt a new film. It's an old one, perhaps with a tweaked formula. The former Kodak would have had the resources to tackled that problem as well as any other issue beyond their control. Easily. Today's Kodak has 6% of the employee base that they used to have. Probably 3% or less when you subtract the core business of commercial printing. Imagine doing your job with 97% less resources.

 

[Prest_400]

This isnt a new film. It's an old one, perhaps with a tweaked formula. The former Kodak would have had the resources to tackled that problem as well as any other issue beyond their control. Easily. Today's Kodak has 6% of the employee base that they used to have. Probably 3% or less when you subtract the core business of commercial printing. Imagine doing your job with 97% less resources.

Indeed, PE did mention there wasn't anyone involved in Reversal materials anymore, plus the whole ordeal of the downsizing at Kodak. Nor the budget of, say a Gov't contract for a specific material that benefits R&D out of a single project. Good to see it is advancing although they still have to make the jump from pilot coater to B38 full production... and it IIRC isn't easy. Basically paraphrasing the struggles and experience that PE expressed in diverse discussions around here. More appreciation to Ron's insight!
Then Ferrania is also taking a huge undertaking with a very small team, although their facility will/should be "right sized".

MIght be a bit wild to say this, but the Palette on those samples have a bit of similarity to Kodachrome and that of a tamer classic Ektachrome. Perhaps they tuned this Ektachrome to cover that ground. Would welcome to see more examples in different light as well as some rolls to shoot!

 

[RattyMouse]

Indeed, PE did mention there wasn't anyone involved in Reversal materials anymore, plus the whole ordeal of the downsizing at Kodak.

Exactly. The same goes with cameras too. Kodak's few posts about their new Super 8mm camera stated clearly that they had lost all knowledge on how to build a camera and had to relearn the whole process. The chemists who lived and breathed E6 chemistry are long gone from Kodak. I dont know how Kodak can attract any fresh blood in their industry. What chemist fresh out of college would want to attach themselves to a a clearly struggling company? Fuji probably had the same problem but it matters not so much since they are ending film production, not resurrecting it.

 

[removed account4]

The time it is taking to bring Ektachrome back is representative of how much skill and resources Kodak has lost. It is staggering to consider how they once had over 100,000 people, ALL working on film, to what they are today: 6,000 people, with the vast majority NOT working on film.

not sure how true this is ... its probably taking extra time because they have to
formulate the batch for a smaller amount seeing kodak was used to making like 100 thousand miles of film at once, and now they
have to retool their formulas and machinery to make 100 miles instead.

In this day and age, where companies routinely release inferior/incomplete products to consumers...am I the only one happy that Kodak is really trying to bring out the best possible product right from the get go?

There's a whole new wave of film photographers that have probably never even shot slide film before. I imagine Kodak is wanting to make sure their first experience hooks them to continue shooting slide. There's also the generations that have shot slide, but perhaps haven't done so in a decade or more. Does Kodak want to release an inferior product to them? Hell no. These types of consumers need the best possible experience from that first roll.

Sure they've missed their targets...but I can't even imagine how difficult it is to resurrect this film. Unless we get to mid-2019 and there's still no new Ektachrome, I'll be happily waiting and trusting Kodak is working hard to get this stuff released...and not only get it released, but get it released as an excellent product that will push people's desire to shoot slide film to new heights.

i agree it is good they are taking their time to do it right, but if they wait too long, the "new wave of film photographers" you speak of won't be able
to get the film processed! kodak built their company not only on film and paper, but as a photofinisher. ... the " do the rest" in the slogan " you push the button and we do the rest"
unfortunately they don't do the rest anymore ( which is a real drag ) and there are fewer and fewer people who are ,,, and while some might chirp in and say " they can process their slide film at home
it is super easy, easier than black and white" ... most people not only do not want to "do the rest" on their own, especially when they have no experience, when exposures put on film
are fleeting moments which never return, a rorll of film is $$$$ ,, and probably don't want to deal with nasty chemicals and trying to figure out
not only how to process slide film without a darkroom ( or equipment needed to do it ) but what to do with the nasty chemicals after they are done with seeing it isn't a good thing
to dump them down the drain ... i kind of wish kodak took a cue from ilford / HT and set up some sort of photofinishing operation so people who can't process their products would
have them continue to "do the rest" ... but i think those days are over and will never be reanimated ...

 

[Lachlan Young]

Indeed, PE did mention there wasn't anyone involved in Reversal materials anymore, plus the whole ordeal of the downsizing at Kodak. Nor the budget of, say a Gov't contract for a specific material that benefits R&D out of a single project. Good to see it is advancing although they still have to make the jump from pilot coater to B38 full production... and it IIRC isn't easy. Basically paraphrasing the struggles and experience that PE expressed in diverse discussions around here. More appreciation to Ron's insight!
Then Ferrania is also taking a huge undertaking with a very small team, although their facility will/should be "right sized".

MIght be a bit wild to say this, but the Palette on those samples have a bit of similarity to Kodachrome and that of a tamer classic Ektachrome. Perhaps they tuned this Ektachrome to cover that ground. Would welcome to see more examples in different light as well as some rolls to shoot!

They did a wide coating at the end of last year - which will have been to find out if the emulsions would cost correctly. At the time, they said there was further fine tuning of the colour balance to be done & I suspect that will be being done via a test coater. Bear in mind that the whole R&D team might only be a couple of dozen strong & the necessary work to keep current films in production will always take priority. In other words, it might be almost ready to go, but it has to fit around work needed to keep TX & Portra & 5219 etc in production.

 

[GarageBoy]

The samples on facebook and instagram look like crap... Like faded ra4 prints. Worst of all, people are commenting "great pics!"

 

[faberryman]

Here's the Ektachrome update posted by Kodak on Facebook:

"Our development team has been making some great progress over the last few months with the Ektachrome update. We want to share a few photos which were shot on Ektachrome film made on our pilot-scale equipment. Hopefully you like them as much as we do! Be sure to like and follow us for more Ektachrome announcements."

So essentially nothing. And the photos aren't anything to write home about. The results look blurry to me with a retro palette reminiscent of the 1960s. Hopefully, they are just lousy scans.

https://www.facebook.com/kodakprofessional/

 

[NJH]

It used to be known for superb greens, green separation and even cleaner shadows than Provia100f. This is what I am looking for, you're right in that a retro film will be of very little interest outside of the lomo crowd. I really hope they don't go down that path.

 

[FilmCurlCom]

I fully understand the "no need to rush" attitude from a photographer's point of view and it makes a lot of sense here since this is a forum about that.
But don't forget those that wait for Ektachrome to use it in their 8mm and 16mm motion picture cameras.
I am such a guy for example. For photography I almost only use negative film, but motion pictures in 8mm and 16mm I want to project at home.
Yes, you can do it on negative and have it copied afterwards, but this is very expensive and as it will mostly be done by companies (instead of doing E6 yourself at home) it takes forever until you see the results. Plus it looks different too.
Whilst photographers still have Fuji E6 films, what is left of motion picture color reversal films? Nothing really, since Wittner finally ran out of the last stock they still had, beside a few old films someone stored somewhere maybe. And it is not even only connected to Kodak's new Super 8 camera either. I have several very nice motion picture cameras in 8mm and 16mm and no intention to buy the new camera as mine still work fine for me, but now I am forced to switch to negative stock, which is really sad.

 

[Lachlan Young]

they are just lousy scans.

I think that's about the long & short of it - they will probably have specific colour examples to match, we should place no weight on those scans.

 

[Hatchetman]

Wow, those scans are terrible. Amazing they don't even own a decent film scanner.

 

[zen_zanon]

I'm actually pretty happy to see a quite low saturation slide film, suppose I'm in the minority? It falls in line with the trendy low saturation C41 film look (a la 400H and Portra). Plus, since the demise of Astia there hasn't been a slide film option for lowish saturation.

Palette-wise, it looks similar to results I've had using Kodak's old Elite Chrome line.