Kodak Reintroduces Ektachrome.

pbromaghin · Jan 22, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
And I have been on military projects that had to rewrite all the software because there were no compilers available for the target machines. One had to know both computer languages and operating systems much better than reading from a book. In fact one had to be an expert in both the old and new languages and operating systems.

All US Air Force bases use the same hardware and software for their supply systems. In 1982, my first job out of college was converting the USAF Standard Base Supply System from the original Univac 1050 Assembler to Sperry Cobol/DMS1100. In the 1950's when the Air Force was procuring the original machines, they became obsolete before the contract ended and no commercial customer ever took delivery. The Assembly language for the 1050 was unique to that machine, so the only people who ever used it were a few enlisted personnel who worked at a central location and distributed code changes worldwide via tape. So for 30 years, the USAF continued to train a few people every year in this language and they used it for one purpose only.

NJH · Jan 22, 2018

Fun scavenging old computers, years ago I can a remember a very enterprising American was making a good living from his garage stock of on old obsolete computers where he had carefully chose certain machines that had commonly used chips/chip sets used in all sorts of military projects. The big fad I remember from the early years of my career was transputers, loads of them ended up in skips but I am sure somebody somewhere made a lot of cash from those puppies.

If you're good with Cobol there has for many years allegedly been easy money to be made in the finance industry here. Personally the one that makes me laugh is the rise/fall/rise/fall/rise again of ADA. Its the boomerang of programming languages.

Sorry for the continuing OT, we really do need some new real news on Ektachrome.

Sal Santamaura · Jan 22, 2018

Prest_400 said:
..."These are the computers that control the missiles, your phone has got much more power than them but these remain unhackable as most of their language has been forgotten"...

While certainly an obstacle to the U.S. nuclear missile fleet being hacked, an old software language is not the reason it's immune. Vlad (and others) could certainly overcome such a challenge.

The real reason U.S. nuclear missiles can't be hacked is that the control system is not Web based. Let's hope it stays that way.

Cholentpot · Jan 22, 2018

Sal Santamaura said:
While certainly an obstacle to the U.S. nuclear missile fleet being hacked, an old software language is not the reason it's immune. Vlad (and others) could certainly overcome such a challenge.

The real reason U.S. nuclear missiles can't be hacked is that the control system is not Web based. Let's hope it stays that way.

Stupid emergency alarms though...

Sirius Glass · Jan 22, 2018

Cholentpot said:
Stupid emergency alarms though...

1) A system has to be designed correctly.
2) The system must be thoroughly tested before connected to outside communication.
3) People have to be trained properly and on machines that are disconnected from sending out messages until the system is certified for service.

Sirius Glass · Jan 22, 2018

pbromaghin said:
All US Air Force bases use the same hardware and software for their supply systems. In 1982, my first job out of college was converting the USAF Standard Base Supply System from the original Univac 1050 Assembler to Sperry Cobol/DMS1100. In the 1950's when the Air Force was procuring the original machines, they became obsolete before the contract ended and no commercial customer ever took delivery. The Assembly language for the 1050 was unique to that machine, so the only people who ever used it were a few enlisted personnel who worked at a central location and distributed code changes worldwide via tape. So for 30 years, the USAF continued to train a few people every year in this language and they used it for one purpose only.

In that case the computers and assemblers still existed. I am talking about rehosting to different computers which do not have the compilers for the original programming language. Much different situations.

Cholentpot · Jan 22, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
1) A system has to be designed correctly.
2) The system must be thoroughly tested before connected to outside communication.
3) People have to be trained properly and on machines that are disconnected from sending out messages until the system is certified for service.

I saw a screenshot of the Hawaii alert page. Talk about lowest bidder...

Diapositivo · Jan 22, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
In that case the computers and assemblers still existed. I am talking about rehosting to different computers which do not have the compilers for the original programming language. Much different situations.

Do you think that a Minutemen system would need to be re-hosted to a new system? That would seem quite crazy to me.
Which kind of military project were you involved in, if I may ask?

Maybe they were "war games" systems, simulators, information systems, accounting system, system for logistics, warehouse management, maintenance schedule etc. but not actual control machines of actual systems, I suppose.

Pbromaghin writes "So for 30 years, the USAF continued to train a few people every year in this language and they used it for one purpose only." this is, in fact, what banks and insurers and probably others did for decades. I imagine the military would do that as a matter of fact.
One can pay a programming team for one year for less than the cost of a few hours of flight of one jet fighter.
In the scale of military expenses, programming costs are minuscule and hardware costs even "minusculer".

Sirius Glass · Jan 22, 2018

Diapositivo said:
Do you think that a Minutemen system would need to be re-hosted to a new system?

I do not know. I did not work on that system.

Diapositivo said:
Which kind of military project were you involved in, if I may ask?

No, you do not have a need to know.

Photo Engineer · Jan 22, 2018

Tell him the truth! You would have to shoot us all if you posted it!

PE

Wayne · Jan 22, 2018

Cholentpot said:
I've used Linux in the past. Nice and all but there's a reason why the masses stick to Microsoft.

I used to be the masses. I tried Linux many times and was disappointed every time because the learning curve was too steep. But I tried again 2 years ago, the curve had flattened and I haven't used Windows since. I'm sure I will, but it will be because I have to. A job will require it. But I can't ever imagine going back to it for 99% of my personal computing. There is simply no reason to.

Cholentpot · Jan 22, 2018

Wayne said:
I used to be the masses. I tried Linux many times and was disappointed every time because the learning curve was too steep. But I tried again 2 years ago, the curve had flattened and I haven't used Windows since. I'm sure I will, but it will be because I have to. A job will require it. But I can't ever imagine going back to it for 99% of my personal computing. There is simply no reason to.

Some day I will return.

As for now I need something that will run all my Adobe products without an issues and be compatible with my customer base.

MattKing · Jan 23, 2018

Wayne said:
I used to be the masses. I tried Linux many times and was disappointed every time because the learning curve was too steep. But I tried again 2 years ago, the curve had flattened and I haven't used Windows since. I'm sure I will, but it will be because I have to. A job will require it. But I can't ever imagine going back to it for 99% of my personal computing. There is simply no reason to.

When there are many many more robust competitive Linux products with responsive paid support for high demand specialized applications then Linux applications will move much more into the mainstream.
Mainstream means flexible and adaptable support in a commercial environment. Our small office spent several hundreds of dollars each year for our application. Bigger firms would spend thousands per year. The value received for those dollars was excellent.
Too much of the Linux community expects software for free.

AgX · Jan 23, 2018

cmacd123 said:
... the Agfa Movie Camera film was phased out more like at least a decade ago by now.

Two decades.

Wallendo · Jan 23, 2018

Sal Santamaura said:
While certainly an obstacle to the U.S. nuclear missile fleet being hacked, an old software language is not the reason it's immune. Vlad (and others) could certainly overcome such a challenge.

The real reason U.S. nuclear missiles can't be hacked is that the control system is not Web based. Let's hope it stays that way.

Otherwise SkyNet will kill us all.

Wayne · Jan 23, 2018

MattKing said:
When there are many many more robust competitive Linux products with responsive paid support for high demand specialized applications then Linux applications will move much more into the mainstream.
Mainstream means flexible and adaptable support in a commercial environment. Our small office spent several hundreds of dollars each year for our application. Bigger firms would spend thousands per year. The value received for those dollars was excellent.
Too much of the Linux community expects software for free.

I don't know if "mainstream" or "commercial" are prime goals of Linux developers or not. But its now a viable alternative for many if not most types of personal computing (so its more mainstream than it was), and certainly some commercial applications. More costly doesn't always mean "better."

Anyway, we should probably get back to the alleged reintroduction of Ektachrome.

Sal Santamaura · Jan 23, 2018

Cholentpot said:
Stupid emergency alarms though...

Not in any way connected to the missile command and control system. A state-based warning system effective at terrorizing the public, but incapable of launching anything. Fortunately.

Cholentpot · Jan 23, 2018

Sal Santamaura said:
Not in any way connected to the missile command and control system. A state-based warning system effective at terrorizing the public, but incapable of launching anything. Fortunately.

Terrorists

Diapositivo · Jan 23, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
No, you do not have a need to know.

That, I know. I was just curious to know whether you were involved in an "operative" system, one which controls a weapon system. I did not consider possible that such a system can be moved to a different hardware, that's why I asked. (I'm not on Vlad's pay...)

MattKing · Jan 23, 2018

Wayne said:
I don't know if "mainstream" or "commercial" are prime goals of Linux developers or not. But its now a viable alternative for many if not most types of personal computing (so its more mainstream than it was), and certainly some commercial applications. More costly doesn't always mean "better."

Anyway, we should probably get back to the alleged reintroduction of Ektachrome.

I don't disagree with what you are saying here (in both parts).
But just like film, if Linux is going to be viable in the long term for people other than just interested hobbyists, it needs to interface well with the world out there. And the computer world out there is full of those who are at best mischievous, and at worst actively interested in causing mayhem.

cmacd123 · Jan 23, 2018

MattKing said:
if Linux is going to be viable in the long term for people other than just interested hobbyists, it needs to interface well with the world out there. .

ANDROID! (Linux in a packet size pack.)

Actually it is quite likely that Most of the world is interfaced with linux. IN fact you are soaking in it now... (Linux running apache that is )

see https://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=www.photrio.com

MattKing · Jan 23, 2018

cmacd123 said:
Actually it is quite likely that Most of the world is interfaced with linux. IN fact you are soaking in it now... (Linux running apache that is )

And I'd bet a fair amount that that instance of Linux is protected by some sort(s) of malware protection.

NJH · Jan 23, 2018

Sorry for more OT.

Have a look at QNX on embedded devices if you want to have some fun and earn money, SIL 3 and ASIL D certified, could be a much more widely known OS in the years ahead for this supposed revolution of IoT.

Truzi · Jan 23, 2018

MattKing said:
I don't disagree with what you are saying here (in both parts).
But just like film, if Linux is going to be viable in the long term for people other than just interested hobbyists, it needs to interface well with the world out there. And the computer world out there is full of those who are at best mischievous, and at worst actively interested in causing mayhem.

We interested hobbyists seem to be in good company
http://www.linuxandubuntu.com/home/10-top-companies-that-are-powered-by-linux
https://newatlas.com/automotive-grade-linux-ford-mazda-mitsubishi-subaru/41204/
http://www.prophethacker.com/2016/10/50-big-companies-and-amazing-devices-linux.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_adopters

Allegedly Autozone and Lowes as well.

cmacd123 · Jan 23, 2018

MattKing said:
And I'd bet a fair amount that that instance of Linux is protected by some sort(s) of malware protection.

Sorry this has gotten WAY off topic. BUT the folks who do linux work on the premise that if their is a problem caused by malware, you fix the underlying software to close that hole. Compare it to say a good set of light seals on a camera back.

Some other systems, figure that software is very complex and that there will always be holes and so you spend a good amount of energy checking anything that comes along against a list of malware that had been deteted in the past, and licking out anything that resembles a past problem Sort of light putting electrical tape on a camera door in case their is a light leak.

The disadvantage of the linux approach is that one can have more than one update in a week. The updates close the hole so that no one can exploit the problem. Fortunately MOST updates can be installed without having to restart the computer. Advantage is that all the computer power used to run anti-malware stuff is instead available to do the main job you want the computer to do.

Anyway, I believe that film Ferrania has said they will be using linux when they have to create new software to run their factory. (to try and get a photographic slant back to this topic)

Kodak Reintroduces Ektachrome.

pbromaghin

NJH

Sal Santamaura

Cholentpot

Sirius Glass

Sirius Glass

Cholentpot

Diapositivo

Sirius Glass

Photo Engineer

Wayne

Cholentpot

MattKing

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AgX

Wallendo

Wayne

Sal Santamaura

Cholentpot

Diapositivo

MattKing

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cmacd123

MattKing

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NJH

Truzi

cmacd123

Kodak Reintroduces Ektachrome.

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