Kodak rapid fix adding Hardner after an year

[Radost]

I am getting some scratches on 5222 and was wondering if I can add the hardener to the kodak Rapid fix an year after it was mixed?

 

[koraks]

Sure. I'd look for the cause of the scratches, though, instead of trying to work around the issue. I doubt the hardener is going to help all that much as long as the cause of the problem isn't addressed.

 

[Radost]

I started taking the film off the jobo reels for the final edwal. The film sticks together so i have to move it around to allow the liquid to rich the film everywhere.
I might just start dpiping my reels again…

 

[MattKing]

Make a separate hardener bath - dilute it 1 + 13.

 

[Radost]

Make a separate hardener bath - dilute it 1 + 13.

Thank You.
SHould I do the bath immediately after the fixer or wash first?

 

[MattKing]

Thank You.
SHould I do the bath immediately after the fixer or wash first?

Fixer, a quick water rinse, then the hardener.
I've struggled, without success, to find specific recommendations about how long to immerse the film or prints in the hardener, and how much capacity the hardener has. I've settled on 3 minutes immersion, and as to capacity - I don't know.
One caution: the hardener is a fairly strong acid - mostly sulfuric acid I believe - so you don't want to spill the concentrate on yourself or your laminate counter!

 

[Radost]

Should I wash a lot like with the rapidfix/hardner mix?

 

[MattKing]

Should I wash a lot like with the rapidfix/hardner mix?

Yes - harder gelatin slows the diffusion of fixer from the emulsion.
If you are going to use hardener, you probably want to use a wash-aid as well.
If you are confident that the film is not being scratched during the wash stage, I suppose that you could employ this procedure: fixer, quick rinse, wash-aid, wash, hardener, short wash, wetting agent.

 

[Radost]

Thanks.
I have to buy a wash aid. Any recommendations?

 

[koraks]

I might just start dpiping my reels again…

Yeah, I'd do that. I wouldn't worry too much about the photoflo/surfactant touching the reels. I've always done it that way; it doesn't give any problems as long as you rinse the reels right after taking the film off.

 

[MattKing]

I've used Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent (HCA) for decades.
It is really simple to make up your own, because the relative proportions of the two main ingredients isn't as critical as with some other chemicals.

 

[Radost]

Yeah, I'd do that. I wouldn't worry too much about the photoflo/surfactant touching the reels. I've always done it that way; it doesn't give any problems as long as you rinse the reels right after taking the film off.

I always do.

 

[MattKing]

I would add the suggestion that you regularly scrub the surfactant touching reels with something like a toothbrush. It is probably the combination of surfactant and gelatin that causes them to gum up.
I find myself surprised that the problem arises with 5222, because as a movie stock I would expect it to be hardened as well or better than still film stocks.
Perhaps the scratching arises from how it came to you?

 

[koraks]

I find myself surprised that the problem arises with 5222, because as a movie stock I would expect it to be hardened as well or better than still film stocks.

Indeed. My experience with Vision3 is that it's tough as nails. I always take the film off of the reel in a bath of soapy water or dilute sodium carbonate to get rid of the remaining remjet. This means lots of fussing about with the film underwater, where the emulsion inevitably touches the walls of the container, parts of the reel, edges of the film itself etc. For some reason, this film tolerates all this abuse without any trouble. I would have expected 5222 to be similarly resilient - but I've never used it.

 

[Radost]

Indeed. My experience with Vision3 is that it's tough as nails. I always take the film off of the reel in a bath of soapy water or dilute sodium carbonate to get rid of the remaining remjet. This means lots of fussing about with the film underwater, where the emulsion inevitably touches the walls of the container, parts of the reel, edges of the film itself etc. For some reason, this film tolerates all this abuse without any trouble. I would have expected 5222 to be similarly resilient - but I've never used it.

When I left the developer to clear the remjet my reels got very dirty. Using the the Kodak pre bath ”at exact temperature” does not have the same effect and keeps my reels clean.

 

[Radost]

I find myself surprised that the problem arises with 5222, because as a movie stock I would expect it to be hardened as well or better than still film stocks.
Perhaps the scratching arises from how it came to you?

I got the 5222 brand new from kodak. no problem before i started manually final rinse.

 

[koraks]

When I left the developer to clear the remjet my reels got very dirty. Using the the Kodak pre bath ”at exact temperature” does not have the same effect and keeps my reels clean.

The Kodak prebath is buffered at a pH that softens the remjet without dissolving it (much). This helps to keep the reels clean.
I myself don't bother with the additional bath anymore and just wipe off the remjet with a soft brush underwater - first the film, then the reels.

 

[Radost]

The Kodak prebath is buffered at a pH that softens the remjet without dissolving it (much). This helps to keep the reels clean.
I myself don't bother with the additional bath anymore and just wipe off the remjet with a soft brush underwater - first the film, then the reels.

Seams way complicated to me. My pre bath takes everything out.

 

[koraks]

Good for you. When I used the Kodak-prescribed bre-bath, I still had to wipe off the film after processing. Otherwise there would be faint remjet traces that showed up on prints. This way I get clean negatives.

 

[Radost]

Good for you. When I used the Kodak-prescribed bre-bath, I still had to wipe off the film after processing. Otherwise there would be faint remjet traces that showed up on prints. This way I get clean negatives.

I scan but checking my negatives there is no remjet

 

[mshchem]

Kodak Double X 5222 does not have any remjet. I never remove film from my Jobo reels until after Photoflo in purified water.

I used to use hardener for everything, no more. As long as you just immerse the reel into correctly mixed Photoflo for 60 seconds with gentle agitation, NO SQUEEGEE OR CHAMOIS, hang and let air dry you shouldn't need hardener.

I use Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent, really helps with the darn purple of TMax films. Really as long as you don't use hardener, you don't need Kodak HCA, just wash for 5-10 minutes in 20-25°C tap water. You need to keep wash at 20° C (more or less) to remove the fixer from the emulsion.

 

[Radost]

Kodak Double X 5222 does not have any remjet. I never remove film from my Jobo reels until after Photoflo in purified water.

I used to use hardener for everything, no more. As long as you just immerse the reel into correctly mixed Photoflo for 60 seconds with gentle agitation, NO SQUEEGEE OR CHAMOIS, hang and let air dry you shouldn't need hardener.

I use Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent, really helps with the darn purple of TMax films. Really as long as you don't use hardener, you don't need Kodak HCA, just wash for 5-10 minutes in 20-25°C tap water. You need to keep wash at 20° C (more or less) to remove the fixer from the emulsion.

Nobody is saying it has

 

[mshchem]

Nobody is saying it has

What?

 

[MattKing]

Some of the discussion above is slightly confusing, because reel maintenance references to 5222 (no remjet) are adjacent to reel maintenance references to Vision 3 films (with remjet).

 

[Radost]

What?

That 5222 has remjet. It does not