Kodak Rapid Color Processors

Bob Carnie · Feb 14, 2019

mshchem said:
The recommended dosing for the model 11 is 4 us fl. oz. 120 mL. This was based on CP-5 chemistry and fiber Ektacolor professional paper. I use 90-100 mL with RA-4. I buy RA4 Developer and Blix in 10 liter batches, very inexpensive . After I do a final wash on the machine of 1 1/2 - 2 minutes, the blanket is clean, I put it into the pre-soak tray ready for the next print . I run at 100F, 45s Dev, 30s stop bath , 45s Blix , 1 1/2 min. minimum wash, squeegee then run through an Ilfospeed dryer that dries a 8x10 in about 10 seconds.

I use Thomas safelights with the DUC color filters, after your eyes adjust you can see the machine. I've never had a problem with fogging the prints. I am careful but I 3 of these safelights going. Indirectly bouncing the light of the ceiling.

Way faster than tubes. Only thing better is deep tanks and you need to be printing a lot more (unless you have a slot setup) I have heaters so temperature is steady, no water wasted. It's a fun and archaic experience. I hope color printing stays around for a long time, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Best Regards Mike
PS my canoes are the Honeywell Nikor rocking print trays, similar to the Color Canoe, not quite as dramatic of a curve.

If I wanted to go back to colour printing RA4 this would be a perfect and fun way to make colour prints... would remind me of the first prints I ever made, a couple of hundred thousand exposures ago.

RPC · Feb 14, 2019

mshchem said:
Dr. Bertrand Miller MD used Kodak rapid color processors for his (once) famous work developing "The Miller Method " of color printing,. Since the internet is nothing but a means of commerce now I find almost little mention of Bert Miller's work. Anyone know how I can access this.
I'm sure I have a copy of one of Bert's postings from the late 90's somewhere . Are there books, archives???
Last I find on this site was 2005.

I use to see his posts discuss color printing, color analyzers and the Miller Method on rec.photo.darkroom.

mshchem · Feb 14, 2019

RPC said:
I use to see his posts discuss color printing, color analyzers and the Miller Method on rec.photo.darkroom.

How do I find this is this active, archived ? I think this is what I viewed several years back. I need to get on a real computer. This Tab S isn't cutting it.

mshchem · Feb 15, 2019

I found a bit of what I was looking for from Goggle blog thingy whatever you call it. 20 years back when Bert Miller was still with us.

"I use 39 year old Kodak Rapid Processors with one-time use chemistry.
The Model 11 which will process up to 12 x 16 -- one at a time --
takes only 2 oz. per print. The Model 16K which processes 16x 20 or
20 x 24 (with 1/4 in. loss on one edge) takes 8 oz. of each chemical
per print. You cannot get better prints with replenishment.

Bert Miller"

I remember one other suggestion Bert made that is super good idea. Don't start the processing with developer in the tray of the KRCP. Start the machine with water in the dump tray . Then take your prewet print, place it on the net leisurely, no hurry. Then when you are ready to start development simply, lift the dump tray, dump the water, add your developer to the tray and start your timer. No need to pre-warm solutions as the SS drum full of tempered water, huge surface area of the drum, instantly brings solutions to exact temperature.

I use around 100 mL not 2 fl oz. Because I have access to cheap RA4. If the machine is level and tray is adjusted, 60mL is plenty.

Bob Carnie · Feb 15, 2019

I remember using a pre wet to get the cylinder moist , the paper was face up in a water tray with the screen below, and when you were ready you just dumped the water, add the dev and lift the screen into place .. I loved this machine

Photo Engineer · Feb 15, 2019

The developer for the drum process was different than that used for tank development due to the initial dilution from the water retained on the drum and due to the high agitation of the rotating drum surface. It also caused problems with the magenta layer. And so, it was more concentrated and contained 2 addenda to prevent fog and to adjust curve shape.

IDK how the machine will work with RA4 as it was never tried AFAIK. In fact, drum tests were not continued into Ektacolor 70 and later.

An improved, teflon coated drum was being tested in KRL, but it was never manufactured. This teflon coating was expensive but far superior to the corrugated drum being sold. It was designed for the E6 drum processor that was just down the hall 2 doors. I share my name on a patent with one of the workers, and the design engineer later became CTO of Kodak.

PE

mshchem · Feb 15, 2019

I still have datasheets for the Ektaprint 300 developer that was the special formulation for these machines. Kodak publishes instructions for using RA4 with these machines, no special formulations required . I have used these with RA4 for years, I get great results . I have used with black and white, just for fun, works fine.

These are a bit of history. Kind of like 2 cylinder John Deere tractors. I love playing with these machines, and get great results.
Best Mike

Photo Engineer · Feb 15, 2019

Interesting Mike. I have never seen those instructions. Do you have a source?

Thanks.

PE

mshchem · Feb 15, 2019

Photo Engineer said:
Interesting Mike. I have never seen those instructions. Do you have a source?

Thanks.

PE

Hi Ron,
I had to go find my hardcopy, EK published in 2003 J39, I did find it on Alaris at the bottom of the list of resources, Tray, Drum, and Rotary-Tube Processing with KODAK EKTACOLOR RA Chemicals J-39 December 2017. Theres directions for models 11, 16 and 30. I wonder if there's anyone left on the planet that even owns a model 30.

I'm pretty sure some of this is in color dataguides. Looks like Alaris just re-issued the EK directions.
Best Regards Mike

Photo Engineer · Feb 15, 2019

Thanks.

Carnie Bob · Feb 7, 2024

mshchem said:
Hi Michael,
I think 1964 is about right here. They appear at the same time CP-5 hit the market . I still use mine, there's nothing faster no tubes to wash and dry. I have after market heaters for my model 11. They work perfectly well with black and white at lower temperatures. These processed fiber based Ektacolor Professional papers. The pre-soak not only relaxed the paper but saturated the fiber paper with clean water, this made for short wash times. People go crazy for Jobo, and ignore these machines. No need to preheat chemistry in a tempering bath, as the huge stainless steel drum with several kgs of tempered water keep temperature perfect. I use Thomas safelights with DUC color filters. After my eyes adjust I can see just enough to get by.
I'm a fan, works perfectly well with RA4 .
View attachment 215044 View attachment 215045

Carnie Bob · Feb 7, 2024

I am wondering if the K16 unit you have is still in use or would you be interested in sale/swap.

I have an assistant here that would love to do colour C prints and this is the unit I worked on.

mshchem · Feb 7, 2024

Carnie Bob said:
I am wondering if the K16 unit you have is still in use or would you be interested in sale/swap.

I have an assistant here that would love to do colour C prints and this is the unit I worked on.

Alive and well. RA4 is so slick you don't need one of these machines. The Kodak machines are great, as PE noted in the Ektaprint days the Kodak machines required a different (Ektaprint 300 vs Ektaprint 3) developer to cope with the extreme agitation. As long as I remember to add starter I'm OK.
A rocking tray and hot (I use a microwave occasionally) solutions 95-105°F, 1 minute each works great.

I'm holding on to my machines. Best Regards Mike

koraks · Feb 7, 2024

Carnie Bob said:
I am wondering if the K16 unit you have is still in use or would you be interested in sale/swap.

Bob, just FYI - anything along the directions of sales, trades etc. go in the Classifieds section. We try to keep the rest of the forum free of this.

Having said that, two more on-topic remarks:
1: the market for RA4 processing machines is positively overheated at the moment. Old Durst RCP's are being traded for (in my opinion) astronomical prices - IF you can find one for sale, let alone in decent/working state.
2: while some kind of RT machine is definitely convenient especially if someone prints a lot, as @mshchem points out it can also be done in trays, and even at room temperature. I've done this for years before I bumped into an RT machine. Alternatively, old-fashioned print drums are also an option if you can bear the constant cleaning/drying (I can't, others can). A third option is some kind of slot processor like the Nova ones, but those are about as rare (or even more so) as RT machines and probably very pricey second hand as well.

If your assistant is just starting out in RA4, I'd recommend to start with trays since it's the easiest way to ease into this, and it helps to figure out if they want to persevere. If so, they might then decide to invest some (serious) money in the endeavor, but at least they would do so with some hands-on experience and a concrete plant/expectation.

mshchem · Feb 7, 2024

koraks said:
Bob, just FYI - anything along the directions of sales, trades etc. go in the Classifieds section. We try to keep the rest of the forum free of this.

Having said that, two more on-topic remarks:
1: the market for RA4 processing machines is positively overheated at the moment. Old Durst RCP's are being traded for (in my opinion) astronomical prices - IF you can find one for sale, let alone in decent/working state.
2: while some kind of RT machine is definitely convenient especially if someone prints a lot, as @mshchem points out it can also be done in trays, and even at room temperature. I've done this for years before I bumped into an RT machine. Alternatively, old-fashioned print drums are also an option if you can bear the constant cleaning/drying (I can't, others can). A third option is some kind of slot processor like the Nova ones, but those are about as rare (or even more so) as RT machines and probably very pricey second hand as well.

If your assistant is just starting out in RA4, I'd recommend to start with trays since it's the easiest way to ease into this, and it helps to figure out if they want to persevere. If so, they might then decide to invest some (serious) money in the endeavor, but at least they would do so with some hands-on experience and a concrete plant/expectation.

Well said. Tubes are a pain. Tubes are a waste of time in the era of RA4. Prices for tubes (drums) and other color sundries, that I rescued from camera store trash, have gone crazy. The Kodak color processors were designed for Ektacolor Fibre Base papers, not required for RC paper and RA-4. Revolutionary to make a color print in 8 minutes in 1963, not so much today

DREW WILEY · Feb 7, 2024

Heck - I let a free Kreonite 50 inch RA4 roller transport processor in excellent condition go to the dump simply because I didn't have any space for it. Tubes are great for RA4 unless you're in a hurry with high volume expectations. Very reliable with close to zero maintenance issues. Don't need much solution volume. Highly repeatable results. And in my case, being somewhat allergic to RA4 chemistry, I can load them in the dark, and then do the actual chemical steps using a serious roller device on a cart I wheel outdoors. I have drums up to 30X40 inch print size - definitely not ordinary camera store fare of a past era. But I'm not on the clock like a commercial lab.

Trays or open tanks, including external baths for rotating devices, sound downright spooky to me - too much risk of RA4 sensitization. It happened suddenly to a couple of lab owners I knew, and afterwards, they couldn't even walk into certain rooms of their own businesses.

mshchem · Feb 7, 2024

DREW WILEY said:
Heck - I let a free Kreonite 50 inch RA4 roller transport processor in excellent condition go to the dump simply because I didn't have any space for it. Tubes are great for RA4 unless you're in a hurry with high volume expectations. Very reliable with close to zero maintenance issues. Don't need much solution volume. Highly repeatable results. And in my case, being somewhat allergic to RA4 chemistry, I can load them in the dark, and then do the actual chemical steps using a serious roller device on a cart I wheel outdoors. I have drums up to 30X40 inch print size - definitely not ordinary camera store fare of a past era. But I'm not on the clock like a commercial lab.

Trays or open tanks, including external baths for rotating devices, sound downright spooky to me - too much risk of RA4 sensitization. It happened suddenly to a couple of lab owners I knew, and afterwards, they couldn't even walk into certain rooms of their own businesses.

This is a good point. I worked sparingly around polyurethane foams. I can't be around isocyanates, I used a respirator. RA-4 doesn't bother me but, using the stuff requires caution like everything else.

DREW WILEY · Feb 8, 2024

I was somewhat pre-sensitized due to being exposed to quite a range of outgassing building materials which got into my office due to a ducting link to the warehouse, after some remodeling relocation. It took very little RA4 exposure to trigger some sensitivity even using a sweaty carbon element cartridge and excellent fume hood. But I had already rigged up my portable cart system for sake of big
Ciba prints and its nasty sulfuric acid bleach. At least with Ciba, drum quantities of acid are easily neutralized just by draining the drum into a plastic bucket with some baking soda in it. But RA4 blix vapor acts more insidiously. Now retired and largely away from commercial chemicals, I'm much less sensitive to RA4 chem itself than I previously was. But I still use just as much caution (no respirator needed, however).

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