Kodak Price Increase and Hiring Spree 2023: What Do You Want Kodak to Focus on Moving Forward?

[koraks]

that IS what kodak press release declared that year.. and we have yet to see any increase in film production capacity as a result.

I think you misremember or have misunderstood. No new coating line was proposed.

 

[faberryman]

I have looked through the press releases on the Kodak website going back to 2018 and can't find one addressing increasing consumer film production. Was it an announcement on Facebook perhaps?

 

[Agulliver]

Kodak-Alaris is certainly fully aware that demand for amateur C41 colour film has increased beyond their hopes/dreams since 2017. The price increase last year was to invest in being able to increase production so that supply could be stabilised. As explained to me by Andy Church of K-A during a phone call.

I do not believe that new coating line was promised, or that the price increase was to price people out of the market. It's more like they'll hire some new workers.....

 

[Agulliver]

that IS what kodak press release declared that year.. and we have yet to see any increase in film production capacity as a result.

It is good news indeed that you have access to Kodak's film production numbers. Could you share them?

While you're at it, could you please point us to the press release you mentnioned.

 

[MattKing]

The increased capacity doesn't relate to coating lines - they still have much more manufacturing capacity there than they need. They need more finishing/confectioning machinery, as well as more people to operate both the existing and new machinery.

 

[brbo]

What is the point of this? Someone DID post this and I responded. Please don't gatekeep this thread. We have moderators and you are not one.

And if someone would like to point out that this is not a "friendly" response, please let me know how dismissive posts like the one above are friendly.

Yes, one person did post this and it's been addressed by koraks hours before you posted your response. As a result I found your post unnecessary since I assumed redbandit would by that time already realised what was actually said by Kodak. Also, it was written in good spirit as in that redbandit didn't need being told he remembered something incorrectly by every person in this thread. And by that I obviously somehow managed to insult both you and redbandit.

Suits me right, no good deed goes unpunished...

 

[Minolta93]

Scanning through this thread, I'm surprised at the lack of calls for Kodachrome. I know it's not going to happen, but I want my Kodachrome back!!

Me and Paul Simon, that's two of us...

I always thought they could get away with slightly changing the current Ektachrome emulsion and selling it as a "new" Kodachrome. Maybe a 50 or 60ISO film with slightly different color rendering. Reds that pop or something like that.

The increased capacity doesn't relate to coating lines - they still have much more manufacturing capacity there than they need. They need more finishing/confectioning machinery, as well as more people to operate both the existing and new machinery.

What exactly is finishing and confectioning? Is it just cutting the film and loading into cassettes and stuff like that? I wonder if they've done research on selling bulk rolls of popular C41 films and whether or not that would help. I know if they sold, for example, bulk rolls of Ultramax, I would buy some and start rolling myself and I'd probably sell/give some to friends and people I know. If there are lots of people and small businesses willing to do that it is kind of as if they contracted out the final stage to a 3rd party.

 

[MattKing]

What exactly is finishing and confectioning? Is it just cutting the film and loading into cassettes and stuff like that?

It is stuff like that, plus cutting to width, edge printing, cutting to length, perforating (where applicable), spooling and loading into cassettes or adding to backing paper, inserting in containers or foil, boxing.
Most of that has to be done in darkness, in climate controlled, clean room conditions.
If done manually, the costs per roll are very high. Only a few entities in the world have automated equipment that can maintain the environmental conditions while providing the volumes that permit profitability at reasonable prices.
To maintain quality, this is specialized and expensive.

 

[Sirius Glass]

As most have probably heard by now, Kodak intends to raise film prices beginning in March of this year. The average price increase expected in the U.S. is reportedly 17%, while other regions (e.g., Japan) are expected to see higher price hikes. It seems likely that these newest price increases are intended to address at least two ongoing issues: 1) to offset elevated, inflation-driven costs in the manufacture of film and chemistry; and 2) to expand the company's manufacturing capacity (i.e., equipment and manpower) in an effort to keep pace with current film demand, which has reportedly surged in the last few years.

Point #1 above is almost certainly true just based on general economic trends occurring around the world. And point #2 seems likely true based on recent statements made by Kodak regarding the company's push to hire more people for its film manufacturing division. However, I've seen some people in forums optimistically speculating that this newest round of price increases might also be driven by an interest within the company to expand its current product lineup (i.e., film, chemistry, etc.). It's that last speculative point that interests me the most, for if true, I think it might help to soften the blow that many are feeling about these newest price increases. If Kodak is looking to offer more products but needs additional revenue to do so, I think a lot of film shooters would be cautiously willing to accept the increases (especially if only temporary).

I don't know to what extent Kodak reps read these or other forums in an effort to understand what customers want (it would certainly be in their best interest to do so, of course), but I'm curious to know what one or two "projects" film shooters would like to see the company pursuing in the near term (say, the next 2-5 years), whether it was changing a current product, bringing one back from the dead, or offering up something completely new. There are no right or wrong answers, so feel free to dream. I'll go first:

1) Bring back Kodak E-6 chemistry -- In February of 2019, Kodak announced it was exploring the possibility of offering its own E-6 chemistry, which was likely spurred on by having brought back Ektachrome E100. No firm plans were announced, and I now notice that the original announcement on the official Kodak Instagram account no longer exists (which might be a bad sign). With Fuji-Hunt having eliminated their 5-liter E-6 kits in October 2021, now would be a good time for Kodak to begin offering its own 6-bath home kit in comparable sizes (e.g., 1-5 liters).

2) Add another color slide film option -- I'm glad E100 was brought back a few years ago, but I'd like to see another offering from the company. I imagine it'd be easier to revitalize an older film than to develop one from scratch, though it's conceivably possible that EPA rules have changed sufficiently in the last 5-10 years that any "old" film might need to be tweaked to meet current regulations (this is reportedly what killed off Velvia 100). Personally, I'd love to see Kodak bring back E100VS. With Fuji Velvia 100 being completely gone in the U.S and Velvia 50 no longer available in sheet sizes, E100VS seems like a no-brainer, as it would fill a void for shooters looking for a punchy, saturated color positive film. Opinions obviously vary, but this was one of my favorite films in the early 2000s.

3) Bring back Aerochrome - There's virtually zero chance of them actually doing this, but as an Aerochrome user, I'd love to see it, even if it was only made available as an infrequent special order every few years. The (re-)startup cost would probably be astronomical, but given what new-old-stock rolls and sheets go for online (~$250 per 120 roll!), I'd be curious to know what the company's break-even price would be. Maybe it's less than $250 per roll?

Have fun.

Staying alive!

 

[B&Wpositive]

I agree with a previous post mentioning Max 800 in color neg. It should be easy to bring that back in rolls, unless there is some licensing issue with the Lomography 800.

Regarding E6, if they are in a position to bring back another E6 film, I would prefer to see Ektachrome 200 (e.g. E200) or 400 (e.g. 400X), instead of another 100 speed film. Anyone agree?

And if they have the ability to bring back a black and white film, I think Plus-X is the most obvious practical candidate. But 120 size TXP 320 might be easier.

Doing one of these three should not be overly hard. 120 size Gold 200 is a good start in the recent past. I'm also glad that P3200 came back a while ago. Keep it up, Kodak! Thanks.

 

[Overrank]

I agree with a previous post mentioning Max 800 in color neg. It should be easy to bring that back in rolls, unless there is some licensing issue with the Lomography 800.

Kodak have cassettes of ISO 800 Max colour film in their disposable cameras, so I suspect it’s a licencing issue.

Regarding E6, if they are in a position to bring back another E6 film, I would prefer to see Ektachrome 200 (e.g. E200) or 400 (e.g. 400X), instead of another 100 speed film. Anyone agree?

400 would be nice - faster colour films are always good

 

[madsox]

Regarding E6, if they are in a position to bring back another E6 film, I would prefer to see Ektachrome 200 (e.g. E200) or 400 (e.g. 400X), instead of another 100 speed film. Anyone agree?

Oh, good one. Yes, I'd love a faster E6 film, Ektachrome 200 was always a favorite of mine too.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

OK, I misread that but I think we both agree Kodak won't be opening any new camera or giant film processing (developing) plants anytime in the near future.

Kodak is limited on photo film because of their bankruptcy requirements to sell to Alaris except for movie film sold directly to movie makers in Hollywood and elsewhere.

 

[Overrank]

Kodak is limited on photo film because of their bankruptcy requirements to sell to Alaris except for movie film sold directly to movie makers in Hollywood and elsewhere.

They do sell photo film to other companies though e.g. (allegedly) Lomography, Fujifilm, Aerocolor to various companies. Is t it likely that the restriction is on selling prepackaged film rather than on master rolls. And then where does the ULF film come in ( https://www.canhamcameras.com/kodakfilm.html ) ?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I would like to be able to walk into my local photo shop, and see TMY 120 on the shelf... instead of the clerk having a good laugh when I ask when they'll get some in... Focus on that, Kodak!

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

They do sell photo film to other companies though e.g. (allegedly) Lomography, Fujifilm, Aerocolor to various companies. Is t it likely that the restriction is on selling prepackaged film rather than on master rolls. And then where does the ULF film come in ( https://www.canhamcameras.com/kodakfilm.html ) ?

I don't know the specific details of the bankruptcy provisions.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I agree with a previous post mentioning Max 800 in color neg. It should be easy to bring that back in rolls, unless there is some licensing issue with the Lomography 800.

Regarding E6, if they are in a position to bring back another E6 film, I would prefer to see Ektachrome 200 (e.g. E200) or 400 (e.g. 400X), instead of another 100 speed film. Anyone agree?

And if they have the ability to bring back a black and white film, I think Plus-X is the most obvious practical candidate. But 120 size TXP 320 might be easier.

Doing one of these three should not be overly hard. 120 size Gold 200 is a good start in the recent past. I'm also glad that P3200 came back a while ago. Keep it up, Kodak! Thanks.

That would have to be 1.5X or 3/2X or TriX/2 film.

 

[Hassasin]

Get the greed out of the office, fast. Start doing business as it once was understood, long term sustainability, integrity, customer first, price competitive. No 'raw material/labor cost" BS.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Get the greed out of the office, fast. Start doing business as it once was understood, long term sustainability, integrity, customer first, price competitive. No 'raw material/labor cost" BS.

It is only greed in yours eyes because you think the price increase is too high without any knowledge about the facts or details that went into consideration.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

ummm the price of raw materials has gone up. It's not BS. The price of everything, has gone up. Even doughnuts.

 

[Sirius Glass]

ummm the price of raw materials has gone up. It's not BS. The price of everything, has gone up. Even doughnuts.

Worldwide. Get over the price increases of everything everywhere. It is not greed.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Worldwide. Get over the price increases of everything everywhere. It is not greed.

I never said it was greed.

 

[MattKing]

I don't know the specific details of the bankruptcy provisions.

The bankruptcy is long over, and has no relevance.
Back at the time of the bankruptcy, Eastman Kodak and Kodak Alaris entered into a contract respecting the distribution and marketing of Kodak branded still film man.
That contract has since been revised, due at least in part to the hugely disruptive role played by a world wide pandemic.
Eastman Kodak has always been free to contract manufacture non-Kodak branded film for sale by others under their name.
They are also now able to sell some other product - e.g. the non-remjet Vision film to Cinestill.
But the marketing and distribution rights for Kodak manufactured, Kodak branded, regular still film in regular packaging designed to be sold in the retail market still belong to Kodak Alaris. Eastman Kodak completely lacks the infrastructure to market and distribute that sort of product.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

The bankruptcy is long over, and has no relevance.
Back at the time of the bankruptcy, Eastman Kodak and Kodak Alaris entered into a contract respecting the distribution and marketing of Kodak branded still film man.
That contract has since been revised, due at least in part to the hugely disruptive role played by a world wide pandemic.
Eastman Kodak has always been free to contract manufacture non-Kodak branded film for sale by others under their name.
They are also now able to sell some other product - e.g. the non-remjet Vision film to Cinestill.
But the marketing and distribution rights for Kodak manufactured, Kodak branded, regular still film in regular packaging designed to be sold in the retail market still belong to Kodak Alaris. Eastman Kodak completely lacks the infrastructure to market and distribute that sort of product.

Does Eastman Kodak have any requirements to manufacture film for Alaris if they want to stop manufacturing altogether?

 

[MattKing]

Does Eastman Kodak have any requirements to manufacture film for Alaris if they want to stop manufacturing altogether?

I don't know. The still photographic film manufacturing part of Eastman Kodak is a relatively small part of Eastman Kodak's business, but I expect that there are targets built into the agreement between them - targets for both sides.
And of course there is a synergy between the other things done by Eastman Kodak's division that makes still film and the still film production itself. So if still film ended, it would affect the profitability of their motion picture film and other coating business - e.g. their growing circuit coating business.
Does the Ford Motor Company have requirements to make cars - could they just decide to make trucks?
Anything is possible, but there are consequences if changes are imposed to existing arrangements.