Kodak Plus X - Question

Thomas Bertilsson · Nov 2, 2009

Hey Randy,

I haven't used any Plus-X for portraits at all. And I only use Xtol developer these days.
I can tell you that the Foma 100 bares more than a resemblance to the Agfa APX 100. It's really beautiful with wonderful tonality and beautiful grain.

I use the Arista.EDU Ultra 100 version of the film. Should be exactly the same AFAIK. My next portrait / figure work will be with this film. Plus-X is a little too spendy for me.

- Thomas

Rlibersky said:
Thomas, how does the foma compare to plus-x for portraits? Have you devoloped any in D23?

Randy

Thomas Bertilsson · Nov 2, 2009

Hypam is acidic, but fairly close to neutral pH. Non-hardening.
Very nice and economical fixer that washes out very easily.

- Thomas

rwboyer said:
I don't use Hypam - is that alkaline or conventional? In any case it seems that the all alkaline process is the answer to the bright blue color that I have always seen. I think you are one of the very few that have seen the blueness to any extent with an acid process post developer.

RB

Thomas Bertilsson · Nov 2, 2009

I'm pretty confident that the base of the Foma and Arista.EDU Ultra sheet films is the same. I tried both, and I could see no dissimilarities.
I don't know how they compare to Efke, to be honest. I tried some Efke 25 in 5x7 a while back, but couldn't come to a conclusion whether I liked it or not as I needed faster film and gave the rest away. It seemed almost completely clear after processing in HC-110, though.

rwboyer said:
One other thing - I am on the look out for cheap 8x10 (compared to Kodak) I have been testing Efke but hate the base. Is the Foma base any better than the Efke and is it the same as the Arista EDU ultra? (Really cheap foma)

RB

rwboyer · Nov 2, 2009

Thomas Bertilsson said:
I'm pretty confident that the base of the Foma and Arista.EDU Ultra sheet films is the same. I tried both, and I could see no dissimilarities.
I don't know how they compare to Efke, to be honest. I tried some Efke 25 in 5x7 a while back, but couldn't come to a conclusion whether I liked it or not as I needed faster film and gave the rest away. It seemed almost completely clear after processing in HC-110, though.

I have only shot the Efke 120 100 so far as a test before I sink money into 8x10 sheet film - not a bad film but the base is really flimsy, curly, and cheap compared to TMX in 120.

RB

Thomas Bertilsson · Nov 2, 2009

I didn't know you were referring to roll film, RB. I thought it was sheet film.

The Efke roll films are very curly indeed. The Foma / Arista.EDU Ultra used to be pretty bad, but they have been better with regard to curling lately. I love the results I'm getting with Arista.EDU Ultra, and will continue to use it until I need something with great reciprocity characteristics, in which case I would just submit to spending more and getting some Kodak TMY-2.

As an aside: I made two prints, side by side, in the darkroom yesterday. Both were portraits under similar lighting conditions. One film was Kodak TMax 400 and the other the Arista.EDU Ultra 100. I'll be darned if I can tell that much difference between them. You would literally have to compare the prints side by side to tell a difference. So I can't justify spending more.

Donmck · Nov 2, 2009

..."tangled up in blue"

Harry Lime · Nov 2, 2009

rwboyer said:
Do you remember your process?

RB

Back then it was Nacco Super76 or Rodinal, sometimes with a stop bath and Nacco fixer.

Harry Lime · Nov 2, 2009

rwboyer said:
Holy crap me and you don't shoot plus-x anymore? This is not good one of us has to go out and continue buying it or they will close it down next month. How about we alternate months, I will shoot it for a month and then you will shoot it for a month, etc.

That should keep it going.

RB

Believe it or not I actually bought 4 rolls in 135 two weeks ago. It really has been years.

I'm going to see snow this year for the first time in more than a decade and I remember how good it looks with Plus-X.

I'm probably also going to grab some in 120 for the Rolleiflex and Blad.

"If you shoot it they will make it."

rwboyer · Nov 2, 2009

Harry Lime said:
Back then it was Nacco Super76 or Rodinal, sometimes with a stop bath and Nacco fixer.

Unless I am going crazy I think I posted it already -

D76/TMAX/PMK (always one of those with plus-x)
Water stop
TF4/TF3 alkaline fix
wash

RB

rwboyer · Nov 2, 2009

Harry Lime said:
Believe it or not I actually bought 4 rolls in 135 two weeks ago. It really has been years.

I'm going to see snow this year for the first time in more than a decade and I remember how good it looks with Plus-X.

I'm probably also going to grab some in 120 for the Rolleiflex and Blad.

"If you shoot it they will make it."

90% of all the plus-x I have ever shot was 120 PXP in 6x6. 9.9% was PXT in sheets. The rest 35mm (not much) as I stuck to TRI-X for 99.9% of that. I will have to grab some 120 just for old times sake and to my part not to see Kodak ditch it but I have to say - ever since TMX came out - like a long time ago and I got to know it I really didn't miss Panatomic-X any more and saw not much sense in Plus-X because I now had a better behaved Panatomic-X in 100 speed. I have no idea why there used to be so many TMX haters out there back in the day - Is it still the same today?

RB

Harry Lime · Nov 2, 2009

I think it may be related to the brand of fixer used.

I see something similar with Tri-X When I use Ilford fixer with Tri-X400 I end up with a pink tint. This never happens if I use Kodak Tmax fixer. With the Kodak formula all of my TX negs come out totally neutral.

Harry Lime · Nov 2, 2009

I'm very impressed by the ultra fine grain of TMX, but there's something about the tonality that looks very digital compared to the old style emulsions like PX etc.

rwboyer · Nov 2, 2009

Harry Lime said:
I'm very impressed by the ultra fine grain of TMX, but there's something about the tonality that looks very digital compared to the old style emulsions like PX etc.

I don't know - I agree that it looks different than PXP but it looks an awful lot like Panatomic-X to me. Maybe slightly different spectral sensitivity.

You tell me here are some scans (not printed from negatives that I am getting ready to print) of very similar scenes/tonal ranges shot unfiltered both with just a black point adjustment. Sorry I don't have the exact same scene but the light/clouds were changing so fast that I couldn't even change backs fast enough to get identical scenes so I just shot similar tonal ranges as metered shadows/mids/highlights to test a roll of Efke 100 the other day vs my old stand by of TMX:

Here is the Efke - doesn't get much more old school.

Here is the TMX

RB

Ps. If I were really sneaky I would have reversed them to see what comments I got about how bad/good one was based on making reverse assumptions about the film - but I am not - this is strait up.

NB23 · Nov 2, 2009

+X is my Favorite film of all times. It has a greenish base and once fixed it is slightly bluish but not that much at all. I guess it's your fixer.

Great film!

travelingman · Nov 4, 2009

rwboyer said:
Hmm...

I don't think anything special about the film... I have a lot of it processed over the years here is my process.

Prewash 2 mins.

Develop - I have used on PXP (D76, XTOL, TMAX RS, PMK, Pyrocat HD and ABC pyro only on sheets - my standard these days is Pyrocat HD for everything)

You seem to have alot of experience with PXP, so how does it look when you develop it in Tmax dev.? Especially compared to D76, as I have some of that in powder laying around, but I mostly use Tmax dev.

rwboyer · Nov 30, 2009

travelingman said:
You seem to have alot of experience with PXP, so how does it look when you develop it in Tmax dev.? Especially compared to D76, as I have some of that in powder laying around, but I mostly use Tmax dev.

Oooops = sorry I didn't see your question before.

I actually do not use either developer any more (as long as I can remember now) but if memory serves they will look very very similar, have very similar speeds, and actually have similar development times. I have only used them diluted and generally I am speaking for D76 1+1 and TMAX using much higher dilution (sometimes like 1+9)

RB

kreeger · Nov 30, 2009

rwboyer said:
Hmmmm,

For those that have never seen the base color of the film here is what it looks like on a light table - you should see it just laying around it looks really dark.

RB

Hi RB,

Recently I shot some Kodak PXP120 from Pro-Pack to see how the film has perhaps changed since maybe 20 years ago. I have used either Verichrome Pan or Ilford FP4 in this particular speed range for a long time.

But honestly... I've never ever seen a negative as blue as what you are showing in 30 or more years of hand processing. Try using a Hypo Clearing Agent such as Permawash or Kodak HCA for 2 minutes after fixing in a hardening Rapid Fix. Honestly I can't tell a base color difference between Tri-X, NeoPan, Acros or PXP.

Try it sometime and see what you get.

Keith

Kodak Plus X - Question

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