Kodak Plus X - Question

[rwboyer]

I have looked at a few rolls of 35mm and 120, no blue. I use indicator stop, no hypo-clear. Also, I wash for about 15 minutes.

So it is not the hypo clear that leaves an acid process post developer - What fixer do you use?

RB

 

[rwboyer]

I've used it in 35mm and 120. That brilliant blue color has always come out in the fix and wash. My Plus-X winds up with a virtually clear base. Maybe just a hint of blue. There is a deep blue anti-hilation dye that comes out in the pre-soak. Do you pre-soak your film?

Yes I prewash and the water comes out blue but...

After a couple other posts I am leaning toward the fact that I use a water stop and an alkaline fix vs a conventional acid fixer that leaves the blue in the base.

Not a big deal it has been that way since the dawn of time with no ill effects I was just curious why this is.

RB

 

[mopar_guy]

I use Kodak Fixer (not Rapid Fixer) or Formulary TF-4, whichever I have mixed up. The last batch I processed, I used Formulary BW-2 Developer and no prewash and the Developer was blue when I poured it out. Temp was 73 F.

 

[travelingman]

how long is a stop bath with water take? I might try it simply to try and get the blue base.

 

[rwboyer]

how long is a stop bath with water take? I might try it simply to try and get the blue base.

I have always used one minute myself. If you are using a developer that takes long time ~10mins or longer I wouldn't worry too much about changing your development time but if you are using a very active developer with short times <7mins then I would probably cut a little bit off your development time.

RB

 

[Leighgion]

I've only shot Arista-rebadged Plus-X in 135 and it's not blue.

Fomapan in 120 is blue though, and I've never done a lot of wondering about it. Long as it works, and it does, the film base can be whatever tint it likes.

 

[Sirius Glass]

how long is a stop bath with water take? I might try it simply to try and get the blue base.

Both Kodak and Ilford say 30 seconds to one minute. If you are nervous use 1.5 minutes.

Steve

 

[JLP]

I developed a roll of 35mm Plus-X yesterday and that is blue. Using as always just water as stop. No prewash.

I've only shot Arista-rebadged Plus-X in 135 and it's not blue

That brings up the question, is Arista Premium really Plus-X?

 

[Alexander Ghaffari]

I've seen blue 120 format Plus-X, but I have never ever seen blue 135 format Plus-X.

 

[Ronald Moravec]

Very nice film for optical printing. 135 is slightly blue and use to be much more blue.

Might be part of the antihalation backing " total package". Just a guess.

The blue base on 120 might be to stop any red that comes thru a red frame window.

Both are just guesses.

 

[rwboyer]

Very nice film for optical printing. 135 is slightly blue and use to be much more blue.

Might be part of the antihalation backing " total package". Just a guess.

The blue base on 120 might be to stop any red that comes thru a red frame window.

Both are just guesses.

Sound like good guesses to me. Probably wrong but good guesses in any case - I never thought of the red window thing for 120 but then again why only plus-x and not any of the other kodak stuff - seems like the same backing paper to me and that would have the largest impact on red window bleed through.

Anyway - on another note, Just shot my first roll of TMX yesterday - Amazing stuff, I have been testing Efke 100 to get used to it before using it as my cheap 8x10 film. God I miss kodak quality after dealing with the Efke 120 for a week or so. Everything from the how flat it is, how tough but crystal clear the base is, I even miss the exquisitely consistent edge printing and of course the really tightly fitting backing paper that lets no light past the edges in virtually any conditions. Hmmm. I may use the Efke100 as my cheap 8x10 but I am definitely sticking with Kodak for my 120.

RB

 

[travelingman]

Ah sounds good, I'm using Ilford Rapid Fixer for 2 minutes is that a little overboard then?

But RB, I noticed you said you've used Tmax Dev to develop Plus-x, how did that end up looking?
I've got some D-76 in powder I might give a shot if its significantly better then Tmax.

 

[sidearm613]

Maybe its just PXP, a film that is not made anymore. I have shot lots of Plus-X, and it has never once had a blue base, and I have developed in several different developers...

 

[erikg]

Sometimes it only seems blue compared to other film. Foma is certainly on a blue base. Agfapan 25 had some color too. I wondered about the whys, maybe PE will enlighten us.

 

[naugastyle]

This is my favorite film so I've certainly shot a fair amount in 35mm. Never ever blue. There's a slight navy tinge in the undeveloped film, sure, but once developed completely clear. Now I kind of want to shoot a roll of 120 just to see it.

 

[Curt]

Interesting post, yes AA did say something about Plus X and I wondered what that bug was up his ask and I'll tell you that it's a very fine film. If and I say If it was available in sheet film, it isn't is it?, I'd have bought some Friday. In fact look at Freestyle under sheet film and Kodak looks like Slim Pickens, not the actor, but few, scare, diminished, reduced, less, not much choice anymore.

Anyway, I have four photographs on my wall in front of me and they have one thing in common, they were all printed off of 4x5 Plus X, which do not have a distinctly blue base. The bottom line is that Freestyle, my long time favorite, was twenty dollars higher than B&H and Adorama would have beat B&H if they had it in stock. So I bought ordered my Ilford FP4 Plus from B&H Photo in NY. Ilfords gain, Kodaks loss.

The cleanest and clearest base I have ever seen is on Rollei Pan 25, if Badger hadn't been out of the panorama roll film holders I'd have one of those here and would have ordered Ilford Pan F, sorry Kodak but you did away with Panatomic X.

I would have ordered some Rollei Pan 25 too. Back when I was going to Brooks I distinctly remember the talk about how Plus X was not a good film and remember switching to Ilford FP4, it just goes to show what one person can do to a reputation.

 

[erikg]

I don't recall and don't care to look up exactly what AA said about Plus-X, but whatever the case his Plus-X was certainly not what we get today, so it has no bearing. Too often we take someone's word on something and even when it is hopelessly out of date still let it influence us. When someone says "it's not a good film" or for that matter "it is a good film" it begs the question "good for what?" What doesn't work in one case may be perfect for another. Only one way to know for sure.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

I have shot lots of Plus-X in various sizes and sheets and have never had a blue like that, or any other blue, for that matter.

I agree with other posters that the use of an all-alkaline process and the lack of HCA is the reason for the blue anti-halation dye staying in the film.

The magenta dye in TMax films turns clear, though slowly, in acid solutions. And it washes out in HCA. Getting the dye out of Tmax is my reason for using HCA with film.

You can print through the blue, just like you can print through fog. The dye may make VC prints a bit contrastier, depending on how much green is absorbed. The contrast shift would be consistent and as it would be incorporated into any test prints it becomes largely irrelevant; it may be significant if you print at grade 1 and softer.

 

[pgomena]

The alkaline process must be it. Plus-X I processed years ago in D-76 and an all-Kodak series of after-chemicals gave a neutral base. PMK and alkaline process gave me deep cyan negatives. Odd.

Peter Gomena

 

[rwboyer]

The alkaline process must be it. Plus-X I processed years ago in D-76 and an all-Kodak series of after-chemicals gave a neutral base. PMK and alkaline process gave me deep cyan negatives. Odd.

Peter Gomena

If I take all of the responses here as accurate here is what the sum of it all seems to be.

The developer probably doesn't matter - neither does the pre-soak.

The water stop bath/alkaline fix with no HCA seems to produce negatives with the base being blue v. gray/clear.

There is one data point out there in the thread that seems to indicate that even with the HCA there is still a blue base but it seems pretty sure that all alkaline process with no HCA will give you a blue base - or rather not take the blue out of it no matter what the developer.

RB

 

[rwboyer]

Question - someone said that today's 120 Plus-X is not the same as the PXP that I posted a shot of. I kind of remember that when Kodak were consolidating the black and white manufacturing facilities a while ago they stated that the 120 Plus-X would be exactly the same with only the possibility of a slight change in dev time.

Now I do not have any idea as I have been shooting TMX for my 100 speed film in 120 for a long time now but is this true that it is very different now? Was there some change I missed along the way?

RB

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Interesting thread. Everything seems to suggest that perhaps it matters which incarnation of the film you've shot, and what chemistry you used.
The reason I say this is that I have used quite a lot of it. Some 'new old stock' that I just used up - Plus-X 120 that expired in 1976. Then I had a batch that expired in 1996. All tested good. And, of course, I've shot a lot of it fresh as well. In all circumstances, it's only with fresh film, (within the last two years or so), that was developed in a daylight tank using Kodak HC-110 that came out with a slight blue tint. Nothing like the turquoise you're showing. At all.
The rest of them are clear, and I've processed in Rodinal, HC-110, Xtol, and Pyrocat-MC. No prewash, acid stop, and Ilford Hypam fixer.

But, they all print fine, so I didn't particularly care either. It was all 120 format roll film.

What bothers me more about Plus-X in 120 is how thin the base is. When I load my stainless steel reels it's not as resistant to kinks in the film as Tri-X and TMax.

Now I shoot almost exclusively Foma film (gorgeous stuff) in 120, and it has a blue base as well. And, what's better, my replenished Xtol comes out turquoise. It looks sweet! Like pouring some strange exotic beverage into the beaker. It's intense in its color!

 

[Rlibersky]

Thomas, how does the foma compare to plus-x for portraits? Have you devoloped any in D23?

Randy

 

[rwboyer]

Interesting thread. Everything seems to suggest that perhaps it matters which incarnation of the film you've shot, and what chemistry you used.
The reason I say this is that I have used quite a lot of it. Some 'new old stock' that I just used up - Plus-X 120 that expired in 1976. Then I had a batch that expired in 1996. All tested good. And, of course, I've shot a lot of it fresh as well. In all circumstances, it's only with fresh film, (within the last two years or so), that was developed in a daylight tank using Kodak HC-110 that came out with a slight blue tint. Nothing like the turquoise you're showing. At all.
The rest of them are clear, and I've processed in Rodinal, HC-110, Xtol, and Pyrocat-MC. No prewash, acid stop, and Ilford Hypam fixer.

But, they all print fine, so I didn't particularly care either. It was all 120 format roll film.

What bothers me more about Plus-X in 120 is how thin the base is. When I load my stainless steel reels it's not as resistant to kinks in the film as Tri-X and TMax.

Now I shoot almost exclusively Foma film (gorgeous stuff) in 120, and it has a blue base as well. And, what's better, my replenished Xtol comes out turquoise. It looks sweet! Like pouring some strange exotic beverage into the beaker. It's intense in its color!

I don't use Hypam - is that alkaline or conventional? In any case it seems that the all alkaline process is the answer to the bright blue color that I have always seen. I think you are one of the very few that have seen the blueness to any extent with an acid process post developer.

RB

 

[rwboyer]

One other thing - I am on the look out for cheap 8x10 (compared to Kodak) I have been testing Efke but hate the base. Is the Foma base any better than the Efke and is it the same as the Arista EDU ultra? (Really cheap foma)

RB