Kodak: Most photographers prefer film

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eddym

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Pros prefer film....

... but still end up having to shoot digital because the customer wants the pictures done by tomorrow.
A heart-warming story from the front lines:

For several years now, I have been shooting 4x5 EPN of art works for the cover of the "Official" Tourist magazine of Puerto Rico. Last year, the production director called me distraught, as she had forgotten to call me to shoot this year's cover until it was "almost" too late, and she needed me to shoot it and deliver the shot the next day! Unfortunately, that's no longer possible, as there is no longer a lab in PR who processes 4x5 film. I would have to send it to the States. She told me she could not wait, and I would have to shoot it on digital.
Sighing long and loud, I agreed to do what I had to do; I shot the painting and took her the files the next day.
The day after that, she called me and said I had to reshoot (what? what about yesterday's deadline?) because the digital file that I had shot "did not look like the painting." I told her that I would be glad to reshoot if it was necessary, but I had shot RAW files, and had bracketed, done a custom white balance, and all that crap, so surely it had to be just a matter of adjusting the image on screen. I took my laptop and headed for their office.
When I got there, she told me that "the orange tones" in the painting had not come through. (Orange tones? What orange tones?) She showed me a desktop printer copy of a file that the artist had sent her, and in it the painting had garish orange tones in some areas. I told her I did not remember the painting looking like that, but I would see what I could do. But no matter what I did to the file, I could not make it look orange without screwing up all the other colors.
So we got on the phone with the Graphic Artist, who lives in Florida. I told him (and the director) that as far as I was concerned, the "gold standard" for art reproduction was a properly lit and exposed 4x5 EPN transparency, just like I had been providing them for years. I would be glad to reshoot the painting if I could shoot it on film. And it would take a week.
They agreed, and I reshot the painting. Sent the film to Duggal, got it back, delivered it to the client, and guess what?
There were no orange tones. Nor were there any orange tones in the original painting. Or to tell the truth, maybe there were, as the artist had spent almost an hour "retouching" the painting before he would let me shoot it! Hmmmm...
So guess what happened?

They had me shoot yet another painting for the cover! On film! The orange tones were what the director had liked about the original painting, but they did not really exist!

And the film did not lie! :smile:
 

Jordan.K

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I love that little article!!!!! Everyone here just keep buying film and explaining the beauty of analog capture to their friends and families and at least one of those people will be lured back. People are fascinated when I have the chance to show them a good print or see me out with my camera. It's a wonderful thing and I am so glad to be a part of APUG where there are a ton of people like myself!
 

kjsphoto

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After the issues I have been dealing with lately this is the best thing I have heard in weeks. I think I will do some cartwheels!

Wonderful news and thanks for the link...
 

Alex Bishop-Thorpe

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Now if only we could get my local photography magazine to stop sounding so surprised when there's any news to do with film...Oh well, my subscription ran out last month.

The marketing we all get surrounded by paints a vastly different picture to this, but that's usually how it works. But I'm happy to hear about this - we aren't an endangered species by any means, we're the majority. I always figured most film users don't frequent online forums, where as digital shooters would be well acquainted with the internet and make there presence known.
 

aldevo

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I'm not too surprised the most photographers prefer to shoot film. I spoke to a number of people, from homemakers to professionals, about their preference. I would say a majority prefer film so the question is...

Why are they using digital?

I'm sure there many good reasons but it seems I cannot fully explain this apparent preference dichotomy. On the other hand, this might be a 'false' dichotomy as they prefer film but for pratical reasons they use digital.

I think your "false" dichotomy theory is correct. With the rise of social networking/photo sharing websites like Filckr, PhotoBucket and similar, the % of camera users producing hard copy prints is in decline - which is surprising Canon, Kodak, HP, Epson and others. Digital offers virtually no cost savings vs. film when hard copy prints are produced, but that is an output choice that fewer and fewer are making.
 

aldevo

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NO, if only KODAK figured this out!!!!!

PE

Which side of the Kodak house are you referring to?

I'm not sure how many people are aware of this but it is a fact that Kodak's consumer digital imaging and film divisions employ different marketing firms. If you do a quick bit of research, you'll find that for most markets in the Americas and EMEAI the digital side of the house is handled by MindShare, while film is mostly handled by an outfit called Ketchum.

So, unfortunately, it raises the question as to whether the EK Film Division had their marketing agency commission a study whose methodology was appropriate to reach a conclusion that would suit the division. Even if it WAS a slanted study it still suggests there are strong advocates for film at EK - and that's not a bad thing!

I certainly agree with the "pro-film" sentiment expressed in the study.
 
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Photo Engineer

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IDK about the study details, but after hearing Tony Perez talk and the new director of Technology (a former HP associate of Perez), I think collectively I was referring to the 'new' management.

Pe
 

MikeM1977

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I'm not too surprised the most photographers prefer to shoot film. I spoke to a number of people, from homemakers to professionals, about their preference. I would say a majority prefer film so the question is...

Why are they using digital?

I'm sure there many good reasons but it seems I cannot fully explain this apparent preference dichotomy. On the other hand, this might be a 'false' dichotomy as they prefer film but for pratical reasons they use digital.

I prefer a lot of things that are superior, but usually choose something more cost effective.
 

3Dfan

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The excuse I hear for people who like film going digital is the decline of processing availability. I can understand this. In just the past month or 2, Walmart has begun to disregard "Do not cut/do not mount" instructions for E-6. I'm now more limited in who I can go to for affordable processing of my stereo slides because of this. It wouldn't take many more labs to stop honoring such instructions to make my Realist excessively expensive to use.
 

fotch

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Film is like sitting around a campfire or in front of the fireplace. Warm, cozy, time to think, time to reflect, and is sort of romantic. Makes you want to go back and do it again.

Dig*tal is like an electric heater. Quick, warm, if you have electricity, and easy to use, and not much else. Does serve a purpose, as long as you have electricity. No power, no heat.

Just some thoughts.
 

mabman

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The local very small mini-lab, is finding that film developing has bottomed out and is on the rise. He is receiving more colour neg film (35mm) than previous, the trend has been happening since March. These figures are being matched against last years. Whether he has more work because other mini-labs have ceased, or there is a general uplift of 35mm film usage, he isn't 100% sure, but he is starting to grin a bit more.

Mick.


I'd be curious if his increase in business was actual film cassettes, or the disposables. I'm seeing a lot of people walking around with the disposable ones these days.
 

PatTrent

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The problem is...

Pros prefer film....

... but still end up having to shoot digital because the customer wants the pictures done by tomorrow.

Yeah, and I can't wait to see how happy those customers are 15 years from now when they cannot access their wedding, graduation, family reunion photos, because they were stored on digital rather than film! Perhaps some publishers don't care about the longevity issue, but individuals and families presumably do.

Anything for my family archives has to be on film!
 

digiconvert

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Yeah, and I can't wait to see how happy those customers are 15 years from now when they cannot access their wedding, graduation, family reunion photos, because they were stored on digital rather than film..............

Drifting innexorably off topic but in the UK the phone company (BT) is runninf=g an ad for its broadband service where one of the characters is bemoaning the loss of all of the 'videos and pictures of the kids' off the laptop. The seller is that they make backups as part of the fee.

But it shows that
a) Most people now see hardcopy prints in a shoe box as an archaic way of storing memories.
b) Everyone knows that digital files get corrupted and that some day those images are likely to be lost.

It may also partly explain the dichotomy referred to earlier, digital files are easy to store and access hence the popularity of digital amongst the consumer but digital files are known to be fragile.

I think anyone who has even half a decent level of vision would agree that prints from film beat prints from digital on all levels but prints are disappearing as a mainstream method of storage.

Cheers CJB
 

Ole

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People seem to believe that digital files take no space...

Try comparing the storage capacity of a shoe box in terms of gigapixels of image information with the volume of hard disks or DVDs containing anywhere close to the same amount of information...
 

firecracker

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Whatever the current trend is on the preference, in Japan, I have started to notice many consmer-grade 100 ASA films disappearing from the shelves in the stores. Speaking of Kodak, I can't find the 100 ASA version of Super Gold, but there are still tons of the 400 version... right now in the summer time!

I can't go to the beach with the 400 ASA films...
 

nsouto

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Whatever the current trend is on the preference, in Japan, I have started to notice many consmer-grade 100 ASA films disappearing from the shelves in the stores. Speaking of Kodak, I can't find the 100 ASA version of Super Gold, but there are still tons of the 400 version... right now in the summer time!

I can't go to the beach with the 400 ASA films...


Actually it's exactly the opposite where I am. Film is once again available from places where it got thrown out of. I guess a lot of photo shops finally realised that digital consumers don't come back, film ones do...

Be that as it may, I'm collecting my 120 colour neg film, developed at the local mall! And I can now get 120 and 35mm Astia, Velvia and even fuji pro 160s from a place called "Ted's Digital Cameras". :tongue:

Goes to show how market laws can work in reverse, eh?


Oh, and I take my 400 and 800 Fuji superia to the beach, quite happily! :wink:
 

anony moose

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"And 19% admitted that they choose film cameras for more than 60% of their work"

So that mean that 81% of photographers use digital cameras for more than 60% of their work?
 

bob100684

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"And 19% admitted that they choose film cameras for more than 60% of their work"

So that mean that 81% of photographers use digital cameras for more than 60% of their work?

no, definitly not. keep in mind statistics and surveys can be used to prove whatever you want. The only thing proven here is that 19% of SURVEYED photographers chose film for more than 60% of their work
 

Andy K

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Is it wrong to use film in Kodak's (or was that part the AP writer?) eyes? If not, why do they write that "19% admitted that they choose film cameras"? That sounds like "5% of musicians admitted they had tried crystal meth", "8% of politicians admitted they had illicit affairs" :rolleyes:
 

3Dfan

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"And 19% admitted that they choose film cameras for more than 60% of their work"

So that mean that 81% of photographers use digital cameras for more than 60% of their work?
Actually, that means that 81% of photographers surveyed use digital cameras for more than 40% of their work.
 

anony moose

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Actually, that means that 81% of photographers surveyed use digital cameras for more than 40% of their work.

I'd love to hear your explanation of how you arrive at 40% :wink:

Try imagining what the question was.
 

3Dfan

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The threshold set is using film cameras for 60% or more. If you don't use film for more than 60% then you use it for less that 60%. Someone who uses film for 60% or less uses digital for 40% or more because 100% - 60% = 40%.
 

bjorke

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It's adspeak numbers. expect nothing from them.

"Photographers surveyed" mean those in contact with Kodak. To the guy with a D70, a flickr account & an Epson, Kodak is like Oldsmobile, a forgotten brand name. People who are in contact with Kodak are people who still buy film, chemicals, and visit the lab.*

Commercial clients want a FILE, already color-calibrated and ready to go, regardless of how it was made, so they can push it through Quark or InDesign etc. The art director wants to look over the photographer's shoulder on a laptop.

Print-purchasing customers don't have those issues (okay, some wedding people are starting to get that way... I've been hearing a fair number of stories about clients insisting on viewing digital slide shows from weddings during the reception, & my son's bar mitzvah last week was the same -- the afternoon shooter was delivering a preview by dinner time. This may be because of the pressue of competition -- Uncle Henry is showing everyone snaps on his little HP ten minutes after the service, so the pro better had get moving!). Buyers of prints want a beautiful object. And they want cultural authority if they're hanging it -- cultural authority that is reinforced by nostalgia and tradition. Film, like Upper Received Pronunciation, is inherently classier.

KB

* Don't count the ol' yellow lady out, yet -- she actually owns a lot of I.P. in imaging and color science that will have long-lasting value even if all chemical photography stopped tomorrow morning.
 
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Soeren

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