Kodak High Definition Developer

[Gerald Koch]

Gerald Koch submitted a new resource:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists) - Kodak High Definition Developer

Kodak marketed this high acutance developer during the late 50's and early 60's. It was very popular in Europe but was never marketed in the US. The actual formula was never published, however Geoffrey Crawley suggested
that the working solution had a composition similar to that given below.

In HDD the amount of sulfite is kept low in relation to the amount of Metol
thus ensuring the controlled decomposition of the developing agent. This is
in contrast to FX-1 which uses the minimal...

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[kb244]

Are there some common development times/temps available for common films such as tmax, trix, hp5+ so forth... or will a trial run be required for each film.

 

[Gerald Koch]

I could find very little on this developer other than Crawley's mention of it in the BJ. It was not marketed in the US. I did find one post in England with a sample print or two. They said that sharpness was very good. I thought it looked interesting because the mechanism is entirely different from other actuance developers. Haven't had a chance to try it myself. I would only use it with films of ISO 200 or less to avoid excess grain.

I was hoping that one of our older european members might remember it.

 

[kb244]

If I can get hold of the chemicals to make it, I'll likely try it on some of the slow stuff I have such as the Kodak Tech Pan 25, AgfaPan 25, Kodak UltraTec (ISO 6-12), Kodalith (ISO 12), or Ilford PanF+ 50, I'll probally try either Ultratec or Kodalith since I can least try to develop by inspection.

 

[Gerald Koch]

There is a method for determining the development time for a new film. You place a drop of the developer on a piece of the film and count the number of seconds before a noticeable darkening appears. You then multiply the time by a factor to determine the developing time. Can't remember what the factor is -- perhaps someone can help.

 

[kb244]

In the Darkroom Cookbook, I could not find this formula, but what I did find was something called Crawley's FX1 Basically 100ml Water (52C) + Metol 0.5g + Sodium Sulfite 5.0g + Sodium carbonate, anhydrous 2.5g + Ptassium iodide, .001% 5.0ml + Water to make 1.0 Litre

It states that undiluted developing time is between 7 to 14 minutes at 68F, and that the developer may be diluted 1:3 for extreme contrast. So.... if this developer is very similar, then development time may be about the same.

there was another Crawely under the category of "Superfine Grain Developers - Extreme Grain Reduction" called Crawley's FX10 which was basically Sodium Sulfite 100g + Kodak CD-2 7.5g + Hydroquinone 6g + Borax 4g + Boric Acid crystalline 4g + Water to make 1L, that was stated to have a dev time between 6 to 11 minutes @ 68F.

but I figured the FX1 is a better base to go off of since its closest matched in chemistry. It mentioned FX10 was intended to be reused without replenishment to develop 6 or 7 rolls per litre. also "This is the only true superfine-grain developer known not to cause a loss of emulsion speed".

 

[Jed Freudenthal]

This formula was 'popular' in Europe. I do not know from where this statement came. I never saw the formula, and I cannot find any indication that the formula was popular. It is not a high definition recipe but a high acutance formula ( as far as I can see). And the high acutance formulae, usually based on adjacency effects never had a long life. Anyway, the source of the European popularity is not clear.
In the US, the marketing of this developer has been stopped by Kodak.

Jed

 

[Gerald Koch]

The formula was never published by Kodak but Crawley stated that from his investigation that the formula given was close to Kodak's commercial product. Kodak called it High Definition Developer, HDD

There is an english website as I noted and the author said that the developer was quite popular at the time he used it in the 1960's.

 

[Jed Freudenthal]

The formula was never published by Kodak but Crawley stated that from his investigation that the formula given was close to Kodak's commercial product. Kodak called it High Definition Developer, HDD

There is an english website as I noted and the author said that the developer was quite popular at the time he used it in the 1960's.

Can you give the address of that web site. The description of the images was 'engraving like'. I cannot imagine that the high acutance was the flavour of the 1960's. I do not remember this developer in any way. And a recent research in the literature has no result. Therefore, I wonder what the popularity might have been. Anyway, the Kodak people in the US took the developer out of the market.

Jed

 

[Photo Engineer]

Very odd formula. I never saw one quite like this, especially called an HDD. Formulas in the 60s and later for HDDs took an entirely different direction.

PE

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

Can you give the address of that web site. The description of the images was 'engraving like'. I cannot imagine that the high acutance was the flavour of the 1960's. I do not remember this developer in any way. And a recent research in the literature has no result. Therefore, I wonder what the popularity might have been. Anyway, the Kodak people in the US took the developer out of the market.

Jed

Jed, find a copy of the British Journal of Photography Annual 1968 (edited by Geoffrey Crawley). Pages 187 through 192 contain a discussion of Acutance Development and Acutance Formulae. Acutance, Sharpness,Resolving Power, Definition, etc. are explained and discussed on pages 187-189.

On page 186 is the following statement about Microdol-X "It can be used diluted at 1+3, for increased image sharpness as a substitute for the discontinued High Def. developer."

 

[Jed Freudenthal]

Jed, find a copy of the British Journal of Photography Annual 1968 (edited by Geoffrey Crawley). Pages 187 through 192 contain a discussion of Acutance Development and Acutance Formulae. Acutance, Sharpness,Resolving Power, Definition, etc. are explained and discussed on pages 187-189.

On page 186 is the following statement about Microdol-X "It can be used diluted at 1+3, for increased image sharpness as a substitute for the discontinued High Def. developer."

I am aware of this paper. It is of course difficult what Crawley had in mind when he wrote that. For him it was a guess anyway. Definition, as defined around 1960 has little to do with how 'high definition' is defined today. High definition today, like high fidelity is a 'true' image representation, or a MTF close to 100% over the relevant frequency range. With the high acutance developers this was not the case at all. My concern is that 'high definition' of the 1960's might be misunderstood, because the definitions (language) have changed.
I can understand that the Microdol-X replaced the Kodak HDD in 1962. There is a world of difference between the two developers. And, I have the impression that James (Kodak) was not impressed by the high acutance effect caused by the Kodak HDD. The fine grain developers enjoyed quite a popularity in Europe at that time, not something like the Kodak HDD.
Jed

 

[Photo Engineer]

That is precisely why I made my comment before. AFAIK, Kodak did not go any further with the HDD posted here, nor anything remotely resembling it.

PE

 

[Gerald Koch]

It is my impression that the developer was removed from the market because it did not keep very well. The small quantity of sulfite and the high pH shorten its life. This developer works on a different principle from FX-1 or the Beutler formula. In HDD the sulfite is designed to exhaust before the Metol whereas in the other developers it is the Metol which exhausts first. The formula given is for the working solution.

I have been unsuccessful in trying to relocate the website which had the sample HDD prints.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Gerald;

I repeat, they took a different approach. Although what you say is true (AFAIK), the latest before all B&W work stopped was totally different. The last so called HDD had an entirely radical formulation.

It kept well and seasoned well. It had high capacity. I may mix some up and give it a go here, I have everything I need but one item.

PE

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

When we were still using glass plates and Tech Pan sheet film in Transmission Electron Microscopy, we developed with Kodak D-19 or with Kodak HRP (High Resolution Plate) Developer. Kodak apparently discontinued the HRP Developer around 2004.

According to the Kodak HRP Developer MSDS,it contained Potassium Sulfite, Sodium Sulfite, Hydroquinone, Bis (4-hydroxy-N-methylanilinium) sulphate (AKA Metol) and Diethylene Glycol.

 

[Jed Freudenthal]

I have been unsuccessful in trying to relocate the website which had the sample HDD prints.[/QUOTE]

Too bad, you cannot relocate the website. They gave an engraving like appearance. I was unable to locate any Kodak HDD, not in Europe or elsewhere. That is all I know. Based on this fact, I think it was a high acutance developer. The rest are rumors. Like the popularity in Europe. And it was taken out of the market because the Kodak emulsions were modified.

Jed

 

[Jed Freudenthal]

When we were still using glass plates and Tech Pan sheet film in Transmission Electron Microscopy, we developed with Kodak D-19 or with Kodak HRP (High Resolution Plate) Developer. Kodak apparently discontinued the HRP Developer around 2004.

According to the Kodak HRP Developer MSDS,it contained Potassium Sulfite, Sodium Sulfite, Hydroquinone, Bis (4-hydroxy-N-methylanilinium) sulphate (AKA Metol) and Diethylene Glycol.

What is the relation with the Kodak HDD developer? I do not see any relation.

Jed

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

What is the relation with the Kodak HDD developer? I do not see any relation.

Jed

Just an example of two Special Purpose High Resolution Kodak Emulsions developed in two High Contrast, High Resolution Kodak Developers.

 

[Jed Freudenthal]

Just an example of two Special Purpose High Resolution Kodak Emulsions developed in two High Contrast, High Resolution Kodak Developers.

The Kodak HDD is described as a high acutance developer, therefore high contrast transfer, but no high resolution. ( MTF not close to 100%).
The D 19 is a high contrast, high resolution ( and therefore an MTF close to 100%), low fog developer. Known chemical composition. In scientific applications the D 19b is often used.
The recipe of the Kodak HRP developer is unknown to me and not mentioned in the reviews I have. May be, is it the same as the Kodak 19b.

Jed

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

The Kodak HDD is described as a high acutance developer, therefore high contrast transfer, but no high resolution. ( MTF not close to 100%).
The D 19 is a high contrast, high resolution ( and therefore an MTF close to 100%), low fog developer. Known chemical composition. In scientific applications the D 19b is often used.
The recipe of the Kodak HRP developer is unknown to me and not mentioned in the reviews I have. May be, is it the same as the Kodak 19b.

Jed

In my experience, Kodak HRP produced results that were equivalent to those produced by Kodak D19 and/or D19b. Kodak HRP was a bit easier to use than D-19, especially for making positive transparencies.

 

[horaciofuentes6944]

You have 20seconds devided by the factor 4 , the development time is 5 minutes. Sorry for my english. Horacio from Argentina. bye bye.