Kodak HC-110 confusion

[Snapper]

I've just got hold of some HC-110 for the first time, but I'm a bit confused about the dilutions.

The bottle says Dilution B is 1+9, but on the Kodak website factsheet Dilution B is 1+31.

Then, for Tri-X, the bottle then says for B, dev time is 3.75m, whereas the B on the factsheet it's 7.5m. I guess this could be the same thing given the different dilutions.

So I look on the Massive Dev Chart and for Tri-X at ISO400 in Dilution B the dev time is given as 4.5 to 6 mins AND also another entry at 7.5 min.

So which is it? When is Dilution B not Dilution B?

Also, the factsheet doesn't give times for anything above Dilution B for rollfilms. Is it not intended for dilution further than B (not considering stand development).

I never had this trouble with Rodinal!

 

[mhcfires]

You might check the HC-110 Unofficial Resource page: http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/

A few pages into the site the author says: Note: In Europe, HC-110 is also sold in 500-mL bottles as a less concentrated syrup which you dilute 1:9 to make dilution B. If you are using that product (Kodak CAT 500 1466), follow the instructions for the European concentrate, not those for the syrup. Although the European type of HC-110 is sold in England, there does not seem to be an English data sheet for it. Full-strength syrup is also sold in Europe so make sure you know which one you have.

Since you are in Great Britain, this might apply and be the source of your confusion.

Hope this helps.

 

[Kevin Kehler]

It also depends if you are diluting the syrup directly from the bottle or making a stock solution, and then diluting the stock solution. 1+31 is normally when diluting syrup, 1+9 is when diluting stock solution but Michael has a good point as well.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

Yes it's confusing. There are TWO dilutions. There's the stock solution or from concentrate. I don't mix from the stock solution. Just mix 1:31 from CONCENTRATE for dilution B. For example, for a 32oz tank, use 1oz from the bottle to make 32oz of dilution B working developer.

 

[Snapper]

Ah yes, I have product Cat 500 1466 here. I thought it was a bit thin to be classed as a 'syrup'.

I shall check out the resource page.

 

[Snapper]

Ok, so I now see that to get Dilution B I need 1+9 of my Euro HC-110, but it still doesn't explain the wildly varying dev times from 3.75 min to 7.5 min for Tri-X. I prefer a longer dev time than 3.75 min really.

What dev times do people using Euro HC-110 use?

 

[Christopher Walrath]

If you're going to be mixing alot of this up to store for a longer time then make your stock solution for Dil B by mixing 500mL syrup with 3.5L of water. Then to make your working solution from Dil B stock solution, you mix 1:3 (1 part stock solution with three parts water). This gives you 1:31 when you use it.

If you want to mix one shot then you mix 1:31 from the syrup (16mL syrup with 484mL water for 0.5L or 32mL syrup with 968mL water for 1.0L).

 

[phenix]

Just one detail: there’s a difference between dilution and concentration of a solution. Dilution, for example 1+9 means 1 part active substance +9 parts water, to make a total of 10 parts. Concentration, on the other hand, gives you the active substance per total volume, for example: 1:31 means 1 part of active substance for a total of 31 parts (otherwise said, you add only 30 parts water, not 31). Resuming: dilution 1+9 = concentration 1:10, and concentration 1:31 = dilution 1+30.

 

[MattKing]

For HC110 (in it's North American version) you want to use 1 ounce of concentrate to make 1 US quart (32 US ounces) of dilution B working solution.

So in North America, it is actually either 1 + 31 dilution, or 1:32 concentration, using phenix' nomenclature.

 

[Snapper]

Yes, please note I'm talking about Euro HC-110 here.

 

[perkeleellinen]

I use HC-110 for all my B&W film developing, although I prefer the US version. Go to this site and scroll down to the second table:

http://mysite.verizon.net/fowler/photo/hc110.htm

Look at the far right column, dilution H, this is double dilution B, thus it doubles your developing times. Use these ratios if you're only going to be developing one or two films at a time. Get a graduated syringe to draw out the amount of concentrate you need.

 

[2F/2F]

The 1:31 thingy is for the U.S. version. Ignore it for the European version, and follow the instructions on the bottle.

The time for Tri-X 400 in dilution B is listed as 3:45, but this is a misprint. That is actually the time for dilution A. Try 6-7 minutes in dilution B.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

To address the disparity in published developing times for HC-110 dilution B:

When Kodak reformulated Tri-X and a few other films, they recalculated developing times for their data sheets. They managed to get it wrong. The "new" times for HC-110 are ridiculously too short. Kodak has not addressed the issue.

Use the longer (older) time as a starting point for your own personal EI and development time tests.

And ignore all the advice here that doesn't apply to the product you have (it may come in handy if you do get the concentrated syrup). It seems some simply didn't notice that you have a product that is already much diluted in comparison to the product normally available in the US. Dilute 1+9 to get solution B and proportionally more or less to get the other dilutions (there should be a table on the bottle). I've used this product before in Austria and it works just fine once you figure out the dilutions.

Best,

Doremus Scudder
www.DoremusScudder.com

 

[yeknom02]

Yes, from what I understand Kodak screwed up the calculations for Tri-X and to this day won't admit the mistake. I've heard that you have to figure it out on your own based on times for old Tri-X or a similar film.

I strongly recommend reading over the page: http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/ - they even have a section on the European concentrate. It's been a fantastic site for me since I'm just getting started in B&W and HC-110 has been the only developer I've used so far.

I know it probably doesn't help, but for my Tri-X, I used a 1:100 US dilution (somewhere between F and G) and developed for 27 minutes. I like the look of it.

Cheers,
Dan