Kodak HC-110 and Ilfotec HC Price Difference

[mshchem]

I wonder if Ilford has raised prices a bit to discourage stockpiling??

 

[madNbad]

I wonder if Ilford has raised prices a bit to discourage stockpiling??

It’s more likely all of the chemicals are more expensive, labor and shipping are more expensive. Even the bottles and cardboard boxes they’re packed in is more expensive. Add to that, they’re selling to a much smaller group of buyers than a decade ago and don’t want to run the risk of too much inventory. It better for them to sell out existing stock to gauge how much demand there is.
Still, a liter used diluted 1:31 will develop a lot of rolls of film.

 

[Ballinderry-Michael]

It’s more likely all of the chemicals are more expensive, labor and shipping are more expensive. Even the bottles and cardboard boxes they’re packed in is more expensive. Add to that, they’re selling to a much smaller group of buyers than a decade ago and don’t want to run the risk of too much inventory. It better for them to sell out existing stock to gauge how much demand there is.
Still, a liter used diluted 1:31 will develop a lot of rolls of film.

1:32 (=1+31)

 

[madNbad]

1:32 (=1+31)

Ok, let’s call it 32 rolls.

 

[Paul Howell]

Aunt Jemina is long gone, now Pearl River.

 

[Ballinderry-Michael]

Ok, let’s call it 32 rolls.

I've just done the sums here, as it's after midnight and I don't want to dream about this. 0.25 US fluid ounces is about 7.393 ml: so I can get about 135 rolls developed per litre. Now if I can only go and think about maple syrup for a bit...

 

[pentaxuser]

I wonder if Ilford has raised prices a bit to discourage stockpiling??

Yes, as that is considered to be a reason based on good moral grounds. In fact do film companies ever raise prices except for such reasons or when economic circumstances completely beyond their control absolutely force them to do so?

pentaxuser

 

[madNbad]

I've just done the sums here, as it's after midnight and I don't want to dream about this. 0.25 US fluid ounces is about 7.393 ml: so I can get about 135 rolls developed per litre. Now if I can only go and think about maple syrup for a bit...

Winner! I tried my “new math” and came up with the same answer. I forgot there were four rolls of 135 in a 1000 ml tank. Thanks for the help!

 

[Alex Benjamin]

I've just done the sums here, as it's after midnight and I don't want to dream about this. 0.25 US fluid ounces is about 7.393 ml: so I can get about 135 rolls developed per litre. Now if I can only go and think about maple syrup for a bit...

OK, now do dilutions A, C, D, E, F and G...

G'night!

 

[MattKing]

I wonder if Ilford has raised prices a bit to discourage stockpiling??

Given the collapse of Tetenal's chemical manufacturer, and the apparent withdrawal of the manufacturing done by and/or for Sino Promise, I don't think price increases are based on anything so calculated.

 

[ags2mikon]

I thought I read somewhere that 6.25ml is the minimum concentrate per 80 sq in so that would be 160 rolls of 120 per liter, or 58 cents per roll based on 92 USD per liter. I don't think of it as maple syrup because I like to lick the drips of my fingers. So I always think of it as 15w40 motor oil that I use in my motorhome. Anyway I have a bottle I transferred to glass bottles about 15 years ago that I am going to test tomorrow if the warden will let me and I will let you know.

 

[Steven Lee]

Expensive is relative. Even at $90 per bottle, assuming 1+49 dilution, 1L of Ilfotec HC gives you 50L of working solution. Assuming the most wasteful development method, i.e. one-shot 300ml per roll, that's 151 rolls. $0.6 per roll. That is not outrageous. But if you're using rotary or double-loading 120, or reusing, your cost will be within $0.2-0.4 per roll.

Come on. All B&W chemicals are dirt cheap. Have you seen how much ballet shoes go for? And do you know how many paires one needs per year? Have you looked into mountain biking parts? Fishing? Find me a cheaper hobby than shooting B&W film!

[EDIT] Except DD-X. That crap is way overpriced.

 

[albireo]

Just to throw another potentially interesting option into the mix - Yesterday I prepared my first 1L batch of Adox D76.

I know that people are discussing liquid concentrates, and I am a big Rodinal fan myself. But there are occasions in which I prefer metol based developers and go through the necessary 'hassle' of mixing my D23 from the powder ingredients.

Anyhow - I wanted to say is that it was incredibly easy to mix Adox D76. The powder came in ONE sachet, not two. I only needed to warm up my distilled water to 29°C (really easy) and then just literally pour the content of the one bag in and vigorously mix for 1 minute. Done.

I usually prefer using Rodinal because I can't be bothered playing with powders but this was really incredibly easy. If the results are good this might become a staple in my process.

 

[mshchem]

Given the collapse of Tetenal's chemical manufacturer, and the apparent withdrawal of the manufacturing done by and/or for Sino Promise, I don't think price increases are based on anything so calculated.

Could be that Ilford is scrambling for a new partner? Who knows if Ilford or their agents/retailers are determining the current price. B&H limited my XTOL purchase to 5 packages per order about a month back.

 

[madNbad]

Just to throw another potentially interesting option into the mix - Yesterday I prepared my first 1L batch of Adox D76.

I know that people are discussing liquid concentrates, and I am a big Rodinal fan myself. But there are occasions in which I prefer metol based developers and go through the necessary 'hassle' of mixing my D23 from the powder ingredients.

Anyhow - I wanted to say is that it was incredibly easy to mix Adox D76. The powder came in ONE sachet, not two. I only needed to warm up my distilled water to 29°C (really easy) and then just literally pour the content of the one bag in and vigorously mix for 1 minute. Done.

I usually prefer using Rodinal because I can't be bothered playing with powders but this was really incredibly easy. If the results are good this might become a staple in my process.

B&H Photo has the one liter packages in stock. I bought some one liter brown glass bottles to give XT-3 a try. One liter at 1:1 will do eight rolls. I figured that’s worth a try.

 

[ags2mikon]

I went out and tested my 15 year old ilfotec hc Saturday and it worked just fine. Poured out like nice clean 15w40 motor oil. Now I don't know about what they make now. When this is gone I will have to see.

 

[pentaxuser]

[EDIT] Except DD-X. That crap is way overpriced.

Good job DD-X isn't a person otherwise he'd be hanged twice for two capital offences

pentaxuser

 

[madNbad]

It's in another post but B&H is the only supplier in the U.S. listing Adox D-76 in stock but they won't ship it to my location. Freestyle list a date at the end of October. I stumbled across the Film Photography Project has their brand of D-76 in 1 liter packages for $8.99 plus shipping. I ordered two. One package I'll try it just stock and the other 1:1.

 

[John Wiegerink]

B&H Photo has the one liter packages in stock. I bought some one liter brown glass bottles to give XT-3 a try. One liter at 1:1 will do eight rolls. I figured that’s worth a try.

Let us all know what you think of XT-3. I recently switched from Xtol-R to replenished XT-3. I have a big"0" complaints with it. Also, nice for folks that don't want to mix 5L. Sorry for going astray.

 

[madNbad]

Let us all know what you think of XT-3. I recently switched from Xtol-R to replenished XT-3. I have a big"0" complaints with it. Also, nice for folks that don't want to mix 5L. Sorry for going astray.

I'm on Freestyles notification list for when both the Adox XT-3 and D-76 become available. I've like using Rodinal and know what to expect from Ilfotec HC but if I can try different developers in 1 liter packages it's not a big commitment.

 

[takilmaboxer]

FWIW, with respect to longevity; I tried out Freestyle's L110. Beautiful results! The data sheet says the unopened product has an indefinite shelf life, but once opened, it's two months in a tightly stoppered bottle. Sure enough, after the first two rolls, mine sat on the shelf for three months, tightly stoppered, and turned a light brown color; and rendered only very thin negatives when I tried it again. Oh well, I have plenty of metol and sulfite on hand, and D-23 works great!

 

[madNbad]

While waiting for my bottle of Ilfotec HC to arrive, I was reading about techniques and watching a few videos. I came across one about how the photographers was using Ilfotec HC wrong. Like I was planning, he drew the required amount of developer out of the bottle and mixed it with water. He noticed his negatives were extremely overdeveloped. Going back and reading through the Ilford material, a 1:31 solution is based on using a prepared stock solution. Measuring the concentrated developer straight from the bottle would be 16ml to 484ml of water for a 500ml tank but using Ilfords chart, it would be 62.5ml of stock solution to 437.5mil of water. In short, concentrate straight from the bottle is four times as strong as the stock. Guess I'll be making a stock solution when my bottle arrives.

From Ilfords data sheet.

ILFOTEC HC
ILFOTEC HC solutions have a long life and good resistance to contamination, reliably producing high quality, sharp results under a wide range of conditions. The recommended operating temperature range is 20–24oC, (68–75oF).
MIXING
Note Photographic chemicals are not hazardous when used correctly. It is recommended that gloves, eye protection and an apron or overall are worn when handling and mixing all chemicals. Always follow the specific health and safety recommendations on the chemical packaging. Photochemical material safety data sheets containing full details for the safe handling, disposal and transportation of ILFORD chemicals are available from ILFORD agents or directly from the ILFORD web site at. www.ilfordphoto.com
Preparing stock developer
It is very difficult to measure accurately small quantities of ILFOTEC HC concentrate. For this reason we recommend that the whole bottle of concentrate is diluted to form a stock solution, which is diluted further for use.
Stock developer is prepared by diluting the concentrate 1+3 with water.
Pour the contents of the 1 litre bottle of ILFOTEC HC concentrate into a mixing vessel. Measure out 3 litres of water. Rinse out the empty developer bottle with some of the dilution water and add this to the mixing vessel. Add the remaining dilution water to the mixing vessel to make up to a total volume of 4 litres of stock solution. Stir the stock solution thoroughly. If it is not required for immediate use store the stock solution in clean tightly capped bottles until needed.
Preparing working strength developer solutions
From the stock solution working strength ILFOTEC HC solutions can be mixed either manually or by using automatic solution mixing equipment. If automatic mixing equipment is used follow the equipment manufacturer’s recommendations and advice.
The table below gives the amount of water and developer stock solution required to make up 1 litre of working strength developer at each dilution.
Developer Preparation Solution
Concentrate
dilution ml
1+11 1 part stock 333 2 parts water 667
1+15 1 part stock 250 3 parts water 750
1+19 1 part stock 200 4 parts water 800
1+31 1 part stock 125 7 parts water 875
1+39 1 part stock 100 9 parts water 900
1+47 1 part stock 84 11 parts water 916
1+79 1 part stock 50 19 parts water 950

 

[Alex Benjamin]

Going back and reading through the Ilford material, a 1:31 solution is based on using a prepared stock solution. Measuring the concentrated developer straight from the bottle would be 16ml to 484ml of water for a 500ml tank but using Ilfords chart, it would be 62.5ml of stock solution to 437.5mil of water. In short, concentrate straight from the bottle is four times as strong as the stock.

Mathematically, this makes no sense. 1:31 is 1:31, no matter if you make stock beforehand or go straight from concentrate. The end result is 1:31 in both cases.

 

[madNbad]

Mathematically, this makes no sense. 1:31 is 1:31, no matter if you make stock beforehand or go straight from concentrate. The end result is 1:31 in both cases.

Here’s an older thread discussing the same issue:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/ilfotec-hc-dilution.105053/

 

[Alex Benjamin]

Going back and reading through the Ilford material, a 1:31 solution is based on using a prepared stock solution. Measuring the concentrated developer straight from the bottle would be 16ml to 484ml of water for a 500ml tank but using Ilfords chart, it would be 62.5ml of stock solution to 437.5mil of water.

Mathematically, this makes no sense. 1:31 is 1:31, no matter if you make stock beforehand or go straight from concentrate. The end result is 1:31 in both cases.

1:31 from concentrate for 500ml is 16ml + 484ml water. 1:31 from stock is, from you calculations, 62.5ml stock + 437ml water. Stock is 1+3. That means in your stock solution for 500ml you have 15,6ml of concentrate. That's pretty close to the 16ml, and certainly not 4 times as strong (or weak, depending on which way you're looking at it).

It may be me, I'm no math pro, but the maths seems to work. I've never had problems using the concentrate. One thing, though, is that Ilfotec-HC development times aren't exactly the same as HC-110 development times. They are often longer, not sure why.