Is Ilfotec HC more concentrated than HC-110? I'm just curious as to why a liter bottle of Ilfotec HC costs more than twice what the same size bottle of Kodak HC-110 costs.
Kodak HC-110 and Ilfotec HC Price Difference
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MattKing
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Ilfotec HC is still being made.
Who knows about HC-110.
And of course, with Tetenal being underwater again, who knows ......
Who knows about HC-110.
And of course, with Tetenal being underwater again, who knows ......
Dilutions are the same for HC 110 and ILford Tech HC. For price, Freestyle Legacy brand is much less that either Kodak or Ilford. I bought a bottle of Kodak HC 110 (new version) as ILford HC was out of stock. Next purchase will be 2 bottles of the Legacy version.
Because Ilfotec HC comes from people who've been in B&W film business for a long time and care about their brand. Its manufacturing can be contracted out to Tetenal or someone else, but its availability, stability, consistency, support and documentation have been top notch. Think about this: Ilfotec HC is the only developer in this group which comes with a proper datasheet. All other HC-110 clones, including the Kodak-branded one, do not offer these benefits.
You get what you paid for.
And I suggest to flip this around: Kodak left the chemistry business long time ago. HC-110 is gone. Ilfotec HC is now the source of truth and the golden standard for highly concentrated long-lasting B&W film developer. Everything else is a poorly documented no-brand HC clone.
Agreed. We don't know what Kodak took out of HC-110 in their 2019 modifications—we know it's not as stable as it used to be, and we know (or at least strongly suspect) that it doesn't last as long as it used to—, and we can't tell how much HC-110 would cost today had they not change the formula.
I don't mind paying more for Ilfotec HC because I know I'll be getting the same results I used to get with HC-110 20 years ago.
MattKing
Moderator
The most recent - late 2020 and afterwards - HC-110 appeared to have gone back to the pre-2019 version.
And then both Sino Promise and Tetenal's manufacturer essentially collapsed that part of their business.
And then both Sino Promise and Tetenal's manufacturer essentially collapsed that part of their business.
I'm almost out of my bottle of original formula HC-110 and was looking for an alternative. I ended up buying a bottle of LegacyPro L110 as it's supposed follow the same dilutions/development times as HC-110. I'm going to give it a try shortly, but if it doesn't live up to its billing then I'll go for Ilfotec HC. The Ilford developer is expensive but I use so little concentrate per roll with Dilution H that it should last a long time (assuming it has decent longevity once opened).
For the last year I have been all in on the Tri-X developed in Rodinal plan. The results have been pretty good and thanks to the advice from this forum, have improved. I have been wanting to squeeze some more speed out of the Tri-X and was about to try bumping it from ISO 200 to 320, keeping the Rodinal dilution at 50:1 and keeping the time at ten minutes.
When I first returned to developing at home, which is now several years ago, the first developer I bought was HC-110. The results with TMax were always good and it was consistent. Rodinal returned about the time that original bottle was gone.
The Rodinal experiment has been fun, I was about ready to jump on the Adox XT-3 bandwagon when I came across this thread. I ordered a bottle from B&H Photo and will read up on it. I had good luck with HC-110 at both 31:1 and 47:1.
The liquid concentrates have worked well for me, it’ll be fun to try another.
When I first returned to developing at home, which is now several years ago, the first developer I bought was HC-110. The results with TMax were always good and it was consistent. Rodinal returned about the time that original bottle was gone.
The Rodinal experiment has been fun, I was about ready to jump on the Adox XT-3 bandwagon when I came across this thread. I ordered a bottle from B&H Photo and will read up on it. I had good luck with HC-110 at both 31:1 and 47:1.
The liquid concentrates have worked well for me, it’ll be fun to try another.
I was buying other stuff from Brendan here in Co. Meath and I noticed that he stocks Bellini's Euro HC (HC-110). As Ilfotec HC has been my go-to for years, I thought the Bellini would be easy to use and bought a bottle. Very happy with the results with Retro 80S, which I've developed in both Ilfotec HC and "viscous" Kodak HC-110.
As comparative prices seem to be differently "organised" here in Europe, I don't feel qualified to comment on why each costs what it does; but the Bellini cost me €16.10 for 250ml conc., Ilfotec HC is £40.70 per litre and the currently available Kodak is £45.50 per litre - so the Ilford and Kodak not so different in price here.
As comparative prices seem to be differently "organised" here in Europe, I don't feel qualified to comment on why each costs what it does; but the Bellini cost me €16.10 for 250ml conc., Ilfotec HC is £40.70 per litre and the currently available Kodak is £45.50 per litre - so the Ilford and Kodak not so different in price here.
Not only in Europe. In Montreal stores, HC-110, when available, was listed at CA$63, while Ilfotec HC is listed at CA$73. Don't know why Ilfotec HC is listed at US$92 at B&H, Adorama and elsewhere in the US. That's 125 in CA$. Not sure I would buy it at that price. Hoping a wild increase is not in the future...
When you factor in the price of the film and the travel cost and time involved Ilfotec HC is a bargain.
For those of your who use Ilfotec HC, how is the lifespan once opened? It's taken me nearly two years to get through my bottle of original formula HC-110 and I'm going to hazard a guess that the Ilford developer won't last that long.
My Ilfotec HC has been opened for well over a year and still working strong (used it last week).
Ilford is pretty thorough when it comes to their chemistry's longevity. For example, for DD-X, they note "ILFOTEC DD-X developer concentrate should keep in good condition for: 24 months in full tightly capped bottles. 4 months in half full tightly capped bottles."
For HC, they say nothing more than "ILFOTEC HC solutions have a long life and good resistance to contamination, reliably producing high quality, sharp results under a wide range of conditions," which to me kind of says "You can use it until you have none left in the bottle"
...That said, others may have had different experiences.
@logan2z Mine is about 1.5 years old since opened and works fine. I googled hard trying to find a single mention on the Internet of HC going bad. I found none. So... in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, I am going to hazard a guess that it's as long lasting as the original Kodak HC-110.
My Ilfotec HC has been opened for well over a year and still working strong (used it last week).
Ilford is pretty thorough when it comes to their chemistry's longevity. For example, for DD-X, they note "ILFOTEC DD-X developer concentrate should keep in good condition for: 24 months in full tightly capped bottles. 4 months in half full tightly capped bottles."
For HC, they say nothing more than "ILFOTEC HC solutions have a long life and good resistance to contamination, reliably producing high quality, sharp results under a wide range of conditions," which to me kind of says "You can use it until you have none left in the bottle"
That said, others may have had different experiences.
I just noticed this in the Ilfotec HC data sheet:
If stored in cool conditions, 5–20ºC (41–68ºF), ILFOTEC HC stock solutions will keep for up to :- 6 months in full tightly capped bottles 2 months in half full bottles.
Are you guys diluting it directly from concentrate to make a working solution or first making up the stock solution as Ilford suggests? Unlike Kodak, Ilford doesn't seem to say anything about making working solution directly from concentrate, they only provide instructions and longevity data for stock solution.
That's encouraging.
Because of the stock solution's longevity issue, I only use the concentrate, as I used to with "old" Kodak HC-110. I shoot a lot of film, and if Ilfotec HC were my main developer, I'd probably follow their advice and make the 4L stock solution from the 1L bottle, but I don't use it that often (although this last statement might be revised after a recent experiment with HP5+ @ 1600 which came out in Ilfotec HC much better than I had expected).
That said, it would be nice if Ilford could give at least an estimated duration of the longevity of the concentrate. Their data sheet makes it sound as if there were only two possibilities, unopened bottle—not very useful, I think we can all agree—and stock: "Full, unopened bottles of ILFOTEC HC concentrates stored in cool conditions, 5–20ºC (41–68ºF), will keep indefinitely. Once opened use completely to make stock solutions."
I use Ilfotec one-shot, straight from the bottle for each session (for my Kestrel 8 US oz tank, I simply take 0.25 oz from the bottle). I use Protectan every time and my last bottle lasted me about 5 years, with none left.
I just looked at the Ilfotech HC data sheet where it states, “Preparing stock developer:
It is very difficult to measure accurately small quantities of ILFOTEC HC concentrate. For this reason we recommend that the whole bottle of concentrate is diluted to form a stock solution, which is diluted further for use.” With both the HC-110 and the Rodinal, I decanted them in to 250 ml brown glass bottles fitted with a stopper for an oral syringe. I use the syringe to draw out the required amount of concentrate and mix it just before using it.
Many pharmacies will give you oral syringes if you ask them.
It is very difficult to measure accurately small quantities of ILFOTEC HC concentrate. For this reason we recommend that the whole bottle of concentrate is diluted to form a stock solution, which is diluted further for use.” With both the HC-110 and the Rodinal, I decanted them in to 250 ml brown glass bottles fitted with a stopper for an oral syringe. I use the syringe to draw out the required amount of concentrate and mix it just before using it.
Many pharmacies will give you oral syringes if you ask them.
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OP
OP
I take it from that statement that Ilford's HC-110 equivalent is more like the old formula of Kodak HC-110, which had the consistency of maple syrup rather than the new HC-110, which has a consistency more like milk?
As a Canadian, I politely and respectfully object to comparing any fluid with the glorious viscosity of maple syrup, but yes, it is syrupy
.As a Canadian, I politely and respectfully object to comparing any fluid with the glorious viscosity of maple syrup, but yes, it is syrupy
So I'll humbly say that Ilfotec HC is less gooey now than about ten years ago. It suddenly got a lot easier to measure out and mix small quantities. (I have maple and pecan biscuits in the kitchen cupboard).
I often wonder if protective gas is not used as often as it should be. It does seem to avoid the problem at getting at the developer
pentaxuser
OP
OP
You are making me hungry(for the biscuits not the developer)
When I was reading this thread earlier I was eating waffles with Vermont maple syrup. Yum. The people who use Aunt Jemima's or Mrs. Butterworth's "syrup" on their pancakes and waffles don't know what they're missing.
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