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dsullivan

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Digital technology changes everything, including the way they market their products and services. Their new business strategy requires them to reassess their marketing tactics as well, and adapt them to changing market conditions and evolving customer behavior.

Kodak is committed to a digitally oriented growth strategy focused on helping people better use meaningful images and information in their life and work.
 
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I think Kodak is implying a digital GROWTH strategy. If indeed they're giving up on their cash cow, which brings in half of their revenue, they'd be dumber than a bucket of rocks.
They can't grow with film, but they can still make money with it. Talk about a mature market...
- Thomas
 
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copake_ham

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Digital technology changes everything, including the way they market their products and services. Their new business strategy requires them to reassess their marketing tactics as well, and adapt them to changing market conditions and evolving customer behavior.

Kodak is committed to a digitally oriented growth strategy focused on helping people better use meaningful images and information in their life and work.

Yes, undoubtedly, as has been much discussed, debated and argued about to the point of fisticuffs here in many threads.

Welcome to APUG. While we may shoot "old school" we are not ignorant of the modern ways - after all this IS an internet forum.

And, as photographers with much experience and many skills - we are well aware of trends in the industry and the markets they serve. :wink:


I think Kodak is implying a digital GROWTH strategy. If indeed they're giving up on their cash cow, which brings in half of their revenue, they'd be dumber than a bucket of rocks.
They can't grow with film, but they can still make money with it. Talk about a mature market...
- Thomas

The important thing is to not only continue our support of film photography but to emphasize our preference for it to newcomers.

A "mature market" does not have to be a dying one - but it can well be such if it does not "recruit" new consumers. Part of that is not 'dissing a company that has been involved in film photography almost from the beginning.

What is needed here on APUG is change in attitude toward Kodak. We need to shift from antagonism to an attitude that endorses and embraces the Company's film division.

As PE points out, why would a Kodak rep ever come onto this site? It would be like asking Marie Antoinette how close she would like her hair cut!

If APUG really wants to be an influence in the continuation of film photography, it has to stop the negativity toward Kodak and seek ways of working together with it to advance our common interests.
 

Photo Engineer

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George;

Thanks. That is a very sensible proposition. Now, who will bell the cat and call Kodak?

BTW, don't suggest me. Many of my 'complaints' do get through to Kodak as it is. What they need is an outsider with some degree of credibility.

PE
 

Tim Gray

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I wish Kodak came to this site. I'd love to be able to interact with them. I love their film and use it almost exclusively. I'd use their paper too if they still made it.

As much as I'd like to support Ilford and other companies (though Ilford gets my paper and chem business), I like PX, TX, and TMZ too much to change. HIE is pretty dang awesome too, but I can't afford to use that too much right now (must graduate and get real job...)
 

IloveTLRs

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I wouldn't touch a Kodak digital camera with a 10 foot pole, but I love their film products :smile:

I regularly use TMAX & E100vs and will be using more Tri-X 400 in the future. D-76 is also pretty nifty. I live in the land of FujiFilm however (literally) so Kodak products aren't all that readily available.

Whatever - Kodak, FujiFilm, Ilford- they're all great in my book.
 

film_guy

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I wouldn't touch a non-Canon or Nikon digital camera body with a 10 foot pole too. When will photographers learn that it's not only the camera body which determines a camera company's success, but also the lenses they offer? Even if a company produces a super CCD or CMOS sensor which can record up to 15 fps at 30 megapixels at insanely high ISOs, the camera will be worthless without a wide range of quality lenses to make it work.

I'll continue to support Kodak in their film department, but digital? Sorry, Canon (and Nikon, once the D3 comes down in price) has my support.
 

PHOTOTONE

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I wouldn't touch a non-Canon or Nikon digital camera body with a 10 foot pole too. When will photographers learn that it's not only the camera body which determines a camera company's success, but also the lenses they offer? Even if a company produces a super CCD or CMOS sensor which can record up to 15 fps at 30 megapixels at insanely high ISOs, the camera will be worthless without a wide range of quality lenses to make it work.

I'll continue to support Kodak in their film department, but digital? Sorry, Canon (and Nikon, once the D3 comes down in price) has my support.

Hey, I use a couple of 14megapixel full-frame Kodak DSLR's for a lot of my studio work, in addition to my large format, and all the Kodak pro-line DSLR's used either Canon or Nikon lens mounts. My normal routine for my largest client is to shoot a 4x5 transparency, and a digital shot of the same scene. They use the digital for web and other quick needs, and the transparency, for their archive photo of the product. The Kodak cameras were/are wonderful studio cameras.
 
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Well, it's hard to be positive about a company that:
1. Seemingly don't communicate with their market
2. Continue to make decisions that make me feel like they're going to dump their analog photography alltogether
Why don't they come out of their Rochester cave and actually level with the audience and stand behind the analog photography? My problem is that I don't have any confidence in that they do. They don't seem to try to evolve and be on top of things, but they're just trying to cover up best they can.
Even in analog photography it's about perception, and this is how I view the company without being privy to the details. I would love to think of Kodak as an innovative company that grabs the analog photography situation by its horns and wrestled it a little bit, instead I feel (read feel) as if they're turning their back on me. That is the real problem. They may not be, but it feels that way. They need to convince me, and many other customers I'm sure, to be positive about them.
Ilford has done this for me, which is why their products represent about 60% of my darkroom working materials.
- Thomas
 

dsullivan

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Well, it's hard to be positive about a company that:
1. Seemingly don't communicate with their market
- Thomas

They do, the press release is on Kodak's website for all to read, I repeated part of verbatim to see what the response would be or if anyone would spot it because I don't think half the people responding to this thread even bothered to read it to compare it to the article, they're too busy chanting "KODAK HATERS", the NYSE also only published part of it.
 
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I will admit to that. But you had to hand it to me, or I had to go look for the news. That's the difference. I remind you that I was stating my perception of the company. So in a way Kodak looks to me as if they're not trying hard enough to reach me, that's all.
Maybe I'm high maintenance, but I won't go looking for the news.
- Thomas

They do, the press release is on Kodak's website for all to read, I repeated part of verbatim to see what the response would be or if anyone would spot it because I don't think half the people responding to this thread even bothered to read it to compare it to the article, they're too busy chanting "KODAK HATERS", the NYSE also only published part of it.
 

Photo Engineer

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Thomas;

They do communicate. In fact, Kodak's web site is one of the most complete for all of their products than any other film manufacturer.

As far as relating to customers, the new sheet film now has no UV absorber. So, they do pay attention.

They also are a sponsor over on Photo Net. Why not here? Probably all of the animosity over digital.

BTW, AFAIK Kodak did not make the bodies for their high end full frame digital cameras, they were made for them by Nikon and Canon IIRC. And, their LF sensors are still being used by the manufacturers of large digital backs. The newest digital technology is the pan screen or pan sensor which just about eliminates aliasing while allowing higher speeds with lower noise.

PE
 

copake_ham

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I agree with PE that Kodak's website contains a vast amount of very useful info regarding their analog products. Anyone who hasn't visited is missing out on a lot of good stuff.

The "problem" as I see it is that Kodak is reluctant to "outreach" to this site. That is unfortunate because, as good as Kodak's website is, it doesn't provide for a feedback mechanism such as Ilford achieves with Simon Galley's presence here.

Sadly, however, it would be naive to deny that the atmosphere here toward Kodak is often poisonous. And as such, any representative from the Company would be quickly driven away. Something that hardly works toward our collective interest in preserving analog photography.
 

Scott Peters

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You can make a lot of money in declining market businesses...I have financed leveraged acquisitions for businesses that have done just that....It takes managment balls to make tough decisions on employee count, overhead, etc. Kodak seems confused to me on communicating to the market (investor) and the consumer market....you need to be careful what you say in attempts to satisfy both parties....
 

lns

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In my mind, Kodak is continuing to support film. Their film and development products are readily available, at least in the United States. They reformulated their Portra films and sent free samples to anyone who asked. They just improved T-Max. Yes, their website is terrific. They spent the money to conduct and publicize a survey about professional photographers' use of film -- not a marketing survey but a p.r. survey. I don't see this as letting film die, or even just using it as a cash cow.

A long way of saying, I have no animosity towards Kodak, only positive feelings. -Laura
 
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Hi Ron,

you are correct that their web site is great. I love their website when I need it. As you say it's complete. And, just to set the record straight, I'm not negative about their products (they are second to none in that respect), or their website, just how I perceive the company. As a lover of analog photography of all kinds (digital too, just not passionate about it), I don't feel I have the support from them as I do from Ilford, or even smaller operations such as Fotoimpex with their ADOX brand for instance, because they mix with the folks that are wholly interested in their products and don't rest on people looking the information up.
I too am a little concerned with the negative attitude towards Kodak, but perhaps it's because there is a reason for it? If they played their cards better with places like APUG perhaps the perception of them would be different?
It's in their interest to come off as a company people would like to do business with.
Seriously, I can use Kodak or I can use Ilford, and the results from both will be excellent. I choose to support Ilford because they come to me, I don't have to go to them. Therein lies the difference for me.

No disrespect to you or anyone else, Ron. This is just how I feel about Kodak, honestly.

- Thomas


Thomas;

They do communicate. In fact, Kodak's web site is one of the most complete for all of their products than any other film manufacturer.

As far as relating to customers, the new sheet film now has no UV absorber. So, they do pay attention.

They also are a sponsor over on Photo Net. Why not here? Probably all of the animosity over digital.

BTW, AFAIK Kodak did not make the bodies for their high end full frame digital cameras, they were made for them by Nikon and Canon IIRC. And, their LF sensors are still being used by the manufacturers of large digital backs. The newest digital technology is the pan screen or pan sensor which just about eliminates aliasing while allowing higher speeds with lower noise.

PE
 

Ian Grant

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I actually hear through the grapevine, it's all the animosity towards them in general.

Regards, Art.

Perhaps Art you could speak through the grapevine back to them :smile:

All you need to say is that people using their films, well Champions), colour papers etc would just like a chance to have proper dialogue with the divisions in the company.

Perhaps if they got some positive dialogue going with customers/users their attitudes might change. Many of us use their film, many probably used their B&W papers, a few will use their colour paper.

They can't undo their decisions, like dropping B&W papers, but ironically if they hadn't then other companies in that field companies like Ilford would have disappeared.

Unfortunately as a company Kodak senior management are almost totally forgetting the past and the foundations of the company, but you need to look back to go forward. Kodak built a name for brand loyalty, and supplied the whole of the market place from Box Brownie to LF camera, and every thing else required. They need to find something new, trying to emulate Hewlett Packard or Epson is too late.

Perhaps they need to be a bit more adventurous to attract new innovators/innovations which might pave the way for a bright new future. At the moment all they are doing is using the legacy of the brand name to sell their new products into an already mature market place.

So Art if you can feed something back, this is an analog format, we only want to discuss film, chemicals & papers. But we want Kodak as a whole to remember there is still a huge demand for film worldwide, which they depend on, and secondly respect us as photographers and help us where they can.

Is that too much to ask.

Ian
 
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There's gonna be killing going on? That's where I draw the line. I'm outta here, folks... :rolleyes:
 

Photo Engineer

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Kodak people do lurk here, and messages do get back to them! I know this for a fact.

I also know that many of you know the names of contacts at Kodak. In addition, comments to Kodak by anyone world wide are only a toll free call to their help number anywhere. You can talk to someone in authority just by calling.

Think about this though and look up some of the threads invovled. When most companies cancel a product or update a product the response is "great, a new product" or "ok, it was cancelled, we understand". When Kodak does the same it is pages and pages of gripes! This whole thread is based on an incorrect article and an incorrect premise!

Think about that.

PE
 
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