Kodak Endura might be back

[mshchem]

September 2022 is two years after Kodak Alaris sold the business to Sino Promise.

I understand, I just wonder if the labels were used simply because that's what the converter had, dates are applied on the package as the paper was converted.

Alaris makes no mention of paper on their site. I don't think Alaris would re-enter the market this way??

Who knows. It will all be ink in a few years

 

[MattKing]

FWIW, my Kodak Alaris contact has, so far, nothing to say about this .

 

[BMbikerider]

I have had a look at the images of the packaging and on the 3rd image there is another date = 2013. It may be something entirely seperate, possibly a copyright date, but it leaves another unanswered question

 

[Arcadia4]

I did find some pictures of similarly labelled RA4 Endura paper that had been sold on ebay with an earlier expiry of March 22 and also August 22.

The KA production involved Felix schoeller Germany for the base paper , Carestream US coating and Sinopromise undertaking the finishing in China for KA before they bought the whole rights.

Presumably the product would have been labelled packaged in China even under KA ownership? and the key difference is the ‘USA packed’ labelling and lack of Sinopromise address. The former seems more significant as had sinopromise had a container load of KA branded packaging left over in China when they bought the business they may have carried on using it.

Given the 2021 date, maybe this is production that had been coated at Carestream but couldnt be shipped, and a deal was done to sell it and clear cash without needing to ship it to China given the potential difficulties of doing so In the pandemic shipping crises?

 

[Arcadia4]

 

[Arcadia4]

This is an example of a sinopromise finished ra4 digital product exp 3/21. The same supplier in Australia is offering fairly large volumes of std RA4 gloss and lustre, but no packaging photos.

 

[sillo]

I ended up returning the unopened roll. Guess I'll use the one I tested for contact sheets or something.

 

[calphotography]

I ordered(Unique Photo) this Wednesday October 25th and received it on the 27th. I plan on printing this weekend and can post my results. I am a very inexperienced color printer so keep this in mind.

 

[Fatih Ayoglu]

I ordered(Unique Photo) this Wednesday October 25th and received it on the 27th. I plan on printing this weekend and can post my results. I am a very inexperienced color printer so keep this in mind. View attachment 352204 View attachment 352205

That says, EXP next year July? So it is fresh

 

[koraks]

That says, EXP next year July? So it is fresh

Looks to be produced in January 2023. Not perfectly fresh, but it's the freshest I've seen so far.

 

[calphotography]

I have never cut from a roll before and it looks like I fogged the paper. I did cut the paper using a Thomas safelight with new color filters installed and the flaps closed. I could barely see. Here's my results. Endura on the left Fuji CA on the right. I printed the Fuji with the same settings as the Eundura. Does anyone know if this is the correct back printing for Endura? The Endura is flipped because the edge was less fogged/blue.

 

[mshchem]

Even with the color filters given a few minutes the Thomas safelights will fog paper. Not sure if that's what you are seeing here. IIRC I got a blue color when I tested my Thomas filters for 5 minutes, indirect bounced off the ceiling.
I suspect that manufacture date is when the master rolls were slit. Leftovers??

 

[mshchem]

When I want to see in the dark I use IR goggles. Doesn't fog anything.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Preferably get accustomed to cutting it in total darkness. Any other option, test carefully first. Ordinary safelights are a recipe for trouble.

 

[markjwyatt]

I don't think any of the Endura (or Royal etc.) paper was ever made in China. AFAIK it was/is all made in Windsor, CO. Since this hasn't been a Kodak entity since 2016, I don't know if it's still fair to speak of 'Kodak standards'. Like you said, 'Endura' is just a trademark. And 'Kodak' is just a brand, used by a number of (by now barely/unrelated) entities...

Carestream?

 

[calphotography]

Preferably get accustomed to cutting it in total darkness. Any other option, test carefully first. Ordinary safelights are a recipe for trouble.

I definitely will cut in the dark next time. I knew better but I thought I would give it a shot.

 

[calphotography]

When I want to see in the dark I use IR goggles. Doesn't fog anything.

I have always wondered about these. Do they work well?

 

[DREW WILEY]

I keep a tiny Jobo Minilux amber light in my pocket, and use it only for a few seconds at a time if I need to reorient myself in the dark when working with color paper. But I'm accustomed to cutting paper rolls in total darkness, so rarely need it. These still turn up for sale sometimes, and are quite affordable.

 

[MattKing]

Carestream?

That facility.
As I understand it, at last initially Kodak Alaris shared an interest in the Colorado facility - perhaps a shared leasehold interest - with the Carestream entity. That was one of the many ownership interests that Kodak Alaris disposed of, usually for cash.

 

[mshchem]

I have always wondered about these. Do they work well?

Hell yes!!

 

[MCB18]

Hell yes!!

View attachment 352548

I have those exact same goggles, but honestly I find them not to be very useful, and I get better results when I’m working by feel, lol. Although I’m very near-sighted, so the small-ish display probably doesn’t help.

If anyone wants them, PM me. I’m happy to part with them.

 

[mshchem]

I have those exact same goggles, but honestly I find them not to be very useful, and I get better results when I’m working by feel, lol. Although I’m very near-sighted, so the small-ish display probably doesn’t help.

If anyone wants them, PM me. I’m happy to part with them.

I wear my standard eyeglasses when using the goggles, otherwise I can't see worth a darn. My glasses fit inside the mask. It's not for everyone.

 

[Fatih Ayoglu]

Hell yes!!

View attachment 352548

i can only concur. Me too using IR googles, they work great, no issue so far.

 

[koraks]

Does anyone know if this is the correct back printing for Endura?

It's different from the Endura back print I'm familiar with:

Note not only the different text, but also the different ink color. I'd have to root around for some prints on Kodak Royal paper that I must have somewhere, but as I recall, the back print on that paper explicitly stated the 'Royal' moniker. I don't remember what color the back print was on that paper.

I don't believe Kodak Endura ever came with a 'digital paper' back print. At least not the Kodak/Carestream-produced Endura.

it looks like I fogged the paper.

I find it a little hard to tell what's going on exactly. On the left hand print, I see some cyan fog around the edges that is consistent with orange safelight fogging. My experience is that by the time you have this amount of fog on the white borders, the color balance of the image itself has shifted substantially and natural color reproduction is no longer possible. The difference with a properly made (unfogged) print will be very significant, even if you adjust the filter pack to compensate as far as possible for the fogging.
On the right-hand print, I don't know if the magenta gradient on the white borders is an artefact of the digital photograph or if it's really on the paper. If you have magenta 'fogging' going on, it's weird for sure and not related to your safelight. But I suspect it's just a white balance issue on the digital photo.
Fuji's papers are generally somewhat faster and therefore fog more easily than Kodak Endura.

 

[calphotography]

It's different from the Endura back print I'm familiar with:
View attachment 352567

Note not only the different text, but also the different ink color. I'd have to root around for some prints on Kodak Royal paper that I must have somewhere, but as I recall, the back print on that paper explicitly stated the 'Royal' moniker. I don't remember what color the back print was on that paper.

I don't believe Kodak Endura ever came with a 'digital paper' back print. At least not the Kodak/Carestream-produced Endura.



I find it a little hard to tell what's going on exactly. On the left hand print, I see some cyan fog around the edges that is consistent with orange safelight fogging. My experience is that by the time you have this amount of fog on the white borders, the color balance of the image itself has shifted substantially and natural color reproduction is no longer possible. The difference with a properly made (unfogged) print will be very significant, even if you adjust the filter pack to compensate as far as possible for the fogging.
On the right-hand print, I don't know if the magenta gradient on the white borders is an artefact of the digital photograph or if it's really on the paper. If you have magenta 'fogging' going on, it's weird for sure and not related to your safelight. But I suspect it's just a white balance issue on the digital photo.
Fuji's papers are generally somewhat faster and therefore fog more easily than Kodak Endura.

I don't know if this is getting to far off topic but here's a better photo of a blue edge. Endura top Fuji bottom. I built new color filters for the Thomas Safelight adding additional layers of the color gels thinking it would be extra safe. In the end it is so dim I can barely see with it on. When I turn the room lights on to check color correction and go back to the safelight it takes about 10-15 minutes for my eyes to adjust.