Kodak Ektar 100 - ugly colors. Advice needed

babaluma · May 5, 2011

Hi There,
I have recently tried for the first time Kodak Ektar 100 film on Mamiya Rb67.
As you can see on a photo - result is full of red colors. It was evening and colors were actually a bit in red but not as much as on photos...

Another one:

Is it a special effect of a film or me did smth. wrong?
Thanks

Athiril · May 5, 2011

Looks like bad colour balance.

babaluma · May 5, 2011

Yes, but i am sure my scanner is ok - this happened only with ektar films. Maybe all ektars are shifted a bit to red??

Kevin Caulfield · May 5, 2011

Isn't Ektar 100 a very old film - correct me if I'm wrong? So are you not just seeing colour shifts from using a very old emulsion?

babaluma · May 5, 2011

Expiry date on mine was 2013.
Here is a link for description:
http://wwwdk.kodak.com/global/en/professional/products/films/ektar/ektarIndex.jhtml?pq-path=13328
I guess its quite up-to-date version...
Another thing - i bought it through ebay. It could be it was badly stored.

polyglot · May 5, 2011

I find with Ektar that there is an offset in the blue channel. Best way to approach it while scanning is to set the black- and white-points for the blue channel differently from the other two channels. That will straighten your colours out a lot.

Kevin Caulfield · May 5, 2011

babaluma said:
Expiry date on mine was 2013.
Here is a link for description:
http://wwwdk.kodak.com/global/en/professional/products/films/ektar/ektarIndex.jhtml?pq-path=13328
I guess its quite up-to-date version...
Another thing - i bought it through ebay. It could be it was badly stored.

Okay, my mistake. I thought this was one of the old varieties of Ektar.

2F/2F · May 5, 2011

It's actually closer to the polar opposite of red: cyan. I'd check out a basic color photography textbook from the library to get a handle on the basics of color photography. Then you will know how to fix/prevent this...and hopefully how to see that cyan is not red. IME, Ektar does tend to go cyan when scanned. But since the problem is completely digital in nature, and you are not actually printing these, I'd say that DPUG is the proper place for discussing it from this point.

babaluma · May 5, 2011

to polyglot:
Ok, i am using VueScan for scanning (with epson v500)
There is exact option for this as i see now
I will try to play shifting blue up and down.
Thanks for advice!

babaluma · May 5, 2011

to 2f/2f:
yes, i see now - i got it wrong with red. Cyan (blue) is what i need to correct, probably

Athiril · May 5, 2011

Yeah VueScan is terrible. Scanning isn't discussed here, but your issue is colour balance, some as it would be on an enlarger.

C<->R, M<->G, Y<->B balance is what you need to alter.

You need to use these to balance, I'd suggest using Epson Scan over VueScan (which clips film no matter what you do unless you use Kodak Internegative profile.. ridiculous)

Athiril · May 5, 2011

I don't know what the original scene looked like or what your preference for colour balance is (since one has to be set), but I suspect it might be something like this:

polyglot · May 5, 2011

Nothing wrong with vuescan except that it's a complete bitch to use; it will only clip if you do something wrong, which is admittedly too easy. However it's 10x better than any bundled scan software I've ever seen.

Select "Lock Image Colour" once you've set the film base colour and re-previewed, that will give you the separate sliders. I find you want the B&W points for blue to be a bit further right than for R/G when doing Ektar. I also find it much harder to get accurate/neutral colour from Ektar than any of the Portras.

T0MA · May 6, 2011

Really good article about Ektar can be found from http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/reviews%20kodak%20ektar%20100.html. According to that article and few rolls I have shot I think original shots might have been bit overexposed. I would rate next roll something like ISO 64 and check if results are any better.

tomalophicon · May 6, 2011

T0MA said:
Really good article about Ektar can be found from http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/reviews kodak ektar 100.html. According to that article and few rolls I have shot I think original shots might have been bit overexposed. I would rate next roll something like ISO 64 and check if results are any better.

Wouldn't that be over-exposing even more? Assuming he shot rated at 100 that is.

T0MA · May 6, 2011

tomalophicon said:
Wouldn't that be over-exposing even more? Assuming he shot rated at 100 that is.

Good point

So maybe 125 or even 160 then. I remember having trouble scanning some shots I took with Ektar and then found that article that explained quite a lot. I don't have currently results or notes with me so can't tell which way I exactly went. There are also other good articles about Ektar so I would suggest searching and reading those and then try yourself. Maybe bracketing few shots and see how you can get best results.

Athiril · May 6, 2011

polyglot said:
Nothing wrong with vuescan except that it's a complete bitch to use; it will only clip if you do something wrong, which is admittedly too easy. However it's 10x better than any bundled scan software I've ever seen.

Select "Lock Image Colour" once you've set the film base colour and re-previewed, that will give you the separate sliders. I find you want the B&W points for blue to be a bit further right than for R/G when doing Ektar. I also find it much harder to get accurate/neutral colour from Ektar than any of the Portras.

It will always clip certain negs unless you use Kodak Interneg profile. Always. With nothing you can do about it. Though that's not discussion for here.

babaluma · May 6, 2011

Been too late at home yesterday, so today i will set up experiment with vuescan/epson scan and this film and present you with results!
As i understand now, Ektar giving you super vivid color which maybe good for flowers or smth. like this.
Normally i always use Kodak Ektacolor Pro 160 - the best film i found until now and there were no troubles lilke this.

hpulley · May 6, 2011

I have no problem RA-4 printing or scanning Ektar. The film is quite sensitive and if you over-expose it, the negatives will get dense but no color shift, just a change in contrast if you under or over expose and/or develop. It is a saturated, contrasty film but in a good way. I've used it on people indoors and out, street scenes, landscapes and it seems to work well. I'm still comparing it to Portra 160 and Fuji Reala to see what I prefer. It seems that Reala goes a bit pastel with overexposure while Ektar stays contrasty but blocks up. The Ektar gives you more control while the Reala seems to bit more forgiving of exposure errors. Portra 160 is good stuff and quite versatile. All are quite scannable and printable but often need little color corrections on the filter pack, dichroic head or scanner.

Athiril · May 6, 2011

babaluma said:
Been too late at home yesterday, so today i will set up experiment with vuescan/epson scan and this film and present you with results!
As i understand now, Ektar giving you super vivid color which maybe good for flowers or smth. like this.
Normally i always use Kodak Ektacolor Pro 160 - the best film i found until now and there were no troubles lilke this.

You didn't post anything?

bblhed · May 6, 2011

I went through this and even sent my negatives to Kodak to see if there was a problem.

Conclusion, my scanner sucks, and the best way to get proper colors from Ektar is to have them PRINTED or scanned by an actual professional scanner. And NO Vuescan won't cut it.

Kodak sent me back an optical print that they made from my negative that had scanned like crap and it had outstanding color.

Sorry to say this, but the best way to get great prints from Ektar is to pay someone to provide you with prints, or make them yourself.

hpulley · May 6, 2011

Optical RA-4 prints are the best, IMO. Good/bad thing is you probably have to do it yourself but I'm glad to be doing it myself. Not many labs around here still doing optical prints, almost all have gone scan and print so they can combine the workflow with digital sadly.

If you don't like warm results, print to Fuji Crystal Archive, much cooler results than Kodak Paper in my experience so far though old Supra Endura was fairly neutral.

bblhed · May 6, 2011

Just using the "I'm feeling lucky" button in Picasa gave me this.

I have a feeling this is what you are looking for.

swilf · May 7, 2011

bblhed said:
Conclusion, my scanner sucks, and the best way to get proper colors from Ektar is to have them PRINTED or scanned by an actual professional scanner. And NO Vuescan won't cut it.

I have a little experience with the film, and it was very hard to get decent colors with conventional scanning software. There's nothing wrong with your scanner, of course. I advise you to get raw scans from VueScan and then invert them in PS using Curves or ColorNeg.

There are problems with the film after all. Or maybe just features. Color of pale sky usually shifts to cyan. There is blue cast in shadows (I must admit that sometimes it does look great). The blue cast is severe in case of underexposure, so you may try to underrate it a bit.

Athiril · May 7, 2011

It's very easy actually to get good colours. Do not use VueScan, it's a joke. Dumb film profiles and a load of pointlessly convoluted controls. All you need to do is hit the colour balance option in Epson Scan or whatever basic scanning package.

Colour balance fixes any perceived problems with sky and shadows too, it only takes 30sec - 1min. Though we should stop talking about this here.

Kodak Ektar 100 - ugly colors. Advice needed

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