KODAK - BRING BACK Tmax 3200 !!! Asap pls.

[David Luttmann]

It is just finished now. ....here is a first shot of new Tmax3200. I decided on E.I.
ISO 800 because of outdoor and daylight
I had no need of highest speed at E.I.
6400/12800..first.....!
But from my point it is real smaller grained at lower E.I.'s.
(If you may see ISO 800 as "low" )

View attachment 196041
.....and from tonals - also not "bad" but from this shot not it isn't the intention on tonals.
with regards

Have you done any at 3200?

 

[David Luttmann]

It's real simple. Film productions requires a vast economy of scale to make it suitably profitable for the manufacturer. Ilford is the ONE company on the planet where photographic film is their core business. Without film, Ilford does not exist. The other two companies have been very vocal and demonstrative about how film is not their core business.

While film use is growing, it is growing in very very tiny steps. We are NOT returning to the glory days when millions upon millions upon millions of people shoot film. Therefore, an increase in supply of film represents a significant dilution of the customer base. Ilford will most certainly sell less D3200, possibly a lot less. Many salivate and buying anything, absolutely anything, with a K on it. It does not matter that this resurrected film is hardly any improvement at all over Delta 3200. It just has a K on it. That's all it takes. It is very dangerous to weaken the one company who is truly dedicated enough to make film their core business.

More choice can be bad. It is certainly not automatic that it is good. That's too simplistic in thinking.

Correction. Films used to require vast economies of scale. It appears Kodak may have set up smaller runs that are economically viable. If so, core business or not will be irrelevant.

 

[RattyMouse]

Correction. Films used to require vast economies of scale. It appears Kodak may have set up smaller runs that are economically viable. If so, core business or not will be irrelevant.

This film is coming from Building 38, a facility so oversized that it can (in the words of PE), coat today's annual world wide film consumption in a single day. That's the coating speed, not counting the time it takes to change formulations and other ancillary changes needed to start a new production run.

You think that large has been right sized?

 

[trendland]

Have you done any at 3200?

No not jet - I've just had this single roll and made more than 25 shots of the same motive in same framing (within 10min.) with little exposure series.
At E.I. ISO 800 + corrections.
with regards

 

[Lachlan Young]

This film is coming from Building 38, a facility so oversized that it can (in the words of PE), coat today's annual world wide film consumption in a single day. That's the coating speed, not counting the time it takes to change formulations and other ancillary changes needed to start a new production run.

You think that large has been right sized?

They can coat batches as small as one mile long by machine width - this was covered in the Kodakery podcast a few months ago. However, they generally prefer to coat in larger quantities in one go rather than several small coating runs. The PE quote you are relying on was (I recall) to do with coating a year's supply of Kodachrome in the 1990s. Ilford are almost exactly the same in terms of minimum coating length.

 

[RattyMouse]

They can coat batches as small as one mile long by machine width - this was covered in the Kodakery podcast a few months ago. However, they generally prefer to coat in larger quantities in one go rather than several small coating runs. The PE quote you are relying on was (I recall) to do with coating a year's supply of Kodachrome in the 1990s. Ilford are almost exactly the same in terms of minimum coating length.

Do these tiny batches make enough margin to operate and maintain an enormous building like 38? Kodak sells at most 4% of the film it did from its peak.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

This film was discontinued due to lack of interest.

That's right! Besides which, it was also not competitively priced and irregularly available. And today there is even less interest in high speed B&W films (except a miniscule smattering of Photrions) when a simple digital camera can reach many, many times higher ISO and quality without the attendant costs of processing. Times have changed, but KA is still riding around in circles on their penny farthings.

Of course, Kodak Alaris needs to find a way to make a penny (somehow), so why not release a film of perpetually low popularity and uptake and rake in a few millions? Yeah, they thought about that with Ektachrome Mk II (where is it!?). Ilford's Delta does well because it is available (widely) in 120 — this is more popular than the nursery 35mm format.

 

[RattyMouse]

That's right! Besides which, it was also not competitively priced and irregularly available. And today there is even less interest in high speed B&W films (except a miniscule smattering of Photrions) when a simple digital camera can reach many, many times higher ISO and quality without the attendant costs of processing. Times have changed, but KA is still riding around in circles on their penny farthings.

Of course, Kodak Alaris needs to find a way to make a penny (somehow), so why not release a film of perpetually low popularity and uptake and rake in a few millions? Yeah, they thought about that with Ektachrome Mk II (where is it!?). Ilford's Delta does well because it is available (widely) in 120 — this is more popular than the nursery 35mm format.

I find it very interesting that two companies have promised an E6 film and ended up producing a black and white one instead. Very interesting.

 

[BrianShaw]

I find it very interesting that two companies have promised an E6 film and ended up producing a black and white one instead. Very interesting.

Indeed an interesting observation!

 

[GarageBoy]

No not jet - I've just had this single roll and made more than 25 shots of the same motive in same framing (within 10min.) with little exposure series.
At E.I. ISO 800 + corrections.
with regards

 

[GarageBoy]

Trendland, are you in the us? I have very late production p3200 (late 2014 date/6 rolls) that I would send you to play with. Always refrigerated
Pm me if interested

 

[trendland]

Trendland, are you in the us? I have very late production p3200 (late 2014 date/6 rolls) that I would send you to play with. Always refrigerated
Pm me if interested

That would be nice but I've some Delta 3200 wich are not so bad (from my point) AND I've also Tmax3200 from last batch in 135-36. By the way I have an offer from cheap Tmax3200 on a big core in 70mm. I am not 100% sure from my decision. Because of the cutting to 120 rolls. But it would be smart to shot with it with my P67II in 6x7. In march I will decide....

with greetings

PS: higher ISO in midt format would make real sense with 600mm for example I need min. 1/1000 in addition F/8. AND the cutting to 120 is a little more complicate as with 35mm. But it is possible....

 

[trendland]

Do these tiny batches make enough margin to operate and maintain an enormous building like 38? Kodak sells at most 4% of the film it did from its peak.

It should be less than 4% of the year 2000 top by the way. (1,5% from my point) but it becomes more and more.....
Possible we notice the light at the end of
a some years tunnel from less demand and endless discontinuations.
But we will never see again small priced films. .....that's also true...
with regards

 

[halfaman]

No, T-Max 3200 is finer-grained than Delta 3200, by a considerable margin. I tested them a while back. The Kodak material is about ISO 800–1000, and the Ilford stuff is about ISO 1000–1250. Neopan 1600 clocked in at around ISO 650.

Neopan 1600 is the best film I have ever tried at ISO 1600. Excelent tones, great contrast in any situation, shadows with detail, and fairly controlled grain (withh dicroic enlarger was pretty fine). Far away from the second best at 1600 that will be for me Tri-X. I don't like Delta 3200 and I didn't like TMax 3200.

Perhaps this new TMax 3200 deserves a try seeing the first shoots...

 

[trendland]

Neopan 1600 is the best film I have ever tried at ISO 1600. Excelent tones, great contrast in any situation, shadows with detail, and fairly controlled grain (withh dicroic enlarger was pretty fine). Far away from the second best at 1600 that will be for me Tri-X. I don't like Delta 3200 and I didn't like TMax 3200.

Perhaps this new TMax 3200 deserves a try seeing the first shoots...

By the way halfaman - just as you mentioned Fuji 1600.
I remember c41 Fuji 1600 I bought years ago in Paris and shotwat night in Paris.
What a desaster (E.I was ISO 3200).

with regards

PS : I was a little bit too optimistic
So no way with such E.I.'s on C41.
No way in color outside digital.
(ISO 3200 or higher) but no problem on bw.

 

[RattyMouse]

Neopan 1600 is the best film I have ever tried at ISO 1600. Excelent tones, great contrast in any situation, shadows with detail, and fairly controlled grain (withh dicroic enlarger was pretty fine). Far away from the second best at 1600 that will be for me Tri-X. I don't like Delta 3200 and I didn't like TMax 3200.

Perhaps this new TMax 3200 deserves a try seeing the first shoots...

A best in class film and even that was not good enough to sustain production. With Delta 3200 being a very fine film and available in 120 size, it's hard to see how P3200 has any staying power.

 

[Nihil Abstat]

Neopan 1600 is the best film I have ever tried at ISO 1600. Excelent tones, great contrast in any situation, shadows with detail, and fairly controlled grain (withh dicroic enlarger was pretty fine). Far away from the second best at 1600 that will be for me Tri-X. I don't like Delta 3200 and I didn't like TMax 3200.

Perhaps this new TMax 3200 deserves a try seeing the first shoots...

Neopan 1600 was nowhere close to 1600. The best I got from it was about 650, which is about a stop faster than Tri-X, HP5, or Neopan 400, with slightly more grain. Delta 3200 is close to ISO 1000-1200, and Kodak P3200 T-Max is about 800-1000. These values were determined by testing, and developing the films to the same contrast. Repeated tests confirmed the results.

 

[halfaman]

And Tri-X is supposed to be somewhere around 250, and the results are much more pleasant for me at 1600 than Delta 3200 or TMax 3200.

 

[Kawaiithulhu]

I love the texture of salt and pepper grain, got 10 rolls on order to experiment with

 

[Nihil Abstat]

And Tri-X is supposed to be somewhere around 250, and the results are much more pleasant for me at 1600 than Delta 3200 or TMax 3200.

Yes, I expose ISO all the major 400 films at 250/320. By my measurements, Neopan 1600 works out to be 500/650 or so, T-Max 3200 800/1000, and Delta 3200 1000/1200.

 

[dynachrome]

I made a pre-order of 5 rolls from the CineStill yesterday. I preferred it to the Ilford product. I developed it mostly in phenidone type developers like Microphen or Clayton F60. The F60 does not seem to be available any longer so I'll try F76.

 

[GarageBoy]

I'll actually open my offer of 6 rolls of free tmz for anyone who wants it in the us. Just pm me- I don't see myself using up the rest of it soon enough

 

[MultiFormat Shooter]

Is there any word on if (or when) Kodak will release TMax 3200, in 120 format? I know it was talked about, but I haven't heard anything for quite awhile.

 

[flavio81]

So no way with such E.I.'s on C41.
No way in color outside digital.

There was Superia 1600, an excellent C41 film which I used a lot (perhaps still available in japan as 'Natura 1600').

In the past Konica had a ISO 3200 color film.

 

[foc]

There was Superia 1600, an excellent C41 film which I used a lot (perhaps still available in japan as 'Natura 1600').

In the past Konica had a ISO 3200 color film.

+1 for the Superia 1600, I also used a lot of it professionally in local theater shots and always was happy with the results. I always thought it was find grained for it's speed.
The Konica 3200 on the other hand, I thought had very large grain and I must admit I didn't like it.