Kodak-branded chemicals - official news (they are returning)

[koraks]

Literally everybody mix their chemicals. not literally but 99%.

I don't think that's true. (Which is a polite way of saying: sorry, but that's nonsense.)
By far the most people engaged in darkroom photography that I speak to do not compound their own chemistry. They buy ready-to-go chemistry.

And as pointed out earlier, there is a variety of ECN2 chemistry being sold for small-scale amateur use. Some of it, like CineStill, is really modestly priced. There's not all that much potential for dropping prices further in a viable commercial outfit in a Western country below the CineStill level. Using self-made ECN2 chemistry as a benchmark is misleading because you don't have to deal with packaging, QC, distribution, cost of sales, cost of after-sales support etc. etc. etc.

 

[Radost]

$12.99. Since you mix everything else yourself you already have bleach and fix. Or buy them at Flexicolor prices/quantities and become one of the elite 1% that supposedly doesn't mix all their own chemistry.

12.99

$12.99. Since you mix everything else yourself you already have bleach and fix. Or buy them at Flexicolor prices/quantities and become one of the elite 1% that supposedly doesn't mix all their own chemistry.

$12.99? What is 12.99? Flexicolor is very cheap. Did I not just say I want to buy Ecn-2 at flexicolor prices and quantities ???

 

[Radost]

I don't think that's true. (Which is a polite way of saying: sorry, but that's nonsense.)
By far the most people engaged in darkroom photography that I speak to do not compound their own chemistry. They buy ready-to-go chemistry.

And as pointed out earlier, there is a variety of ECN2 chemistry being sold for small-scale amateur use. Some of it, like CineStill, is really modestly priced. There's not all that much potential for dropping prices further in a viable commercial outfit in a Western country below the CineStill level. Using self-made ECN2 chemistry as a benchmark is misleading because you don't have to deal with packaging, QC, distribution, cost of sales, cost of after-sales support etc. etc. etc.

You have to mix the chemicals with water correct???? Even the liquid once.
There is no viable commercial small batch ecn-2 that is cheap especially not cinestill. It is price gouging like anything else.

 

[koraks]

You have to mix the chemicals with water correct???? Even the liquid once.

Yeah. If you call that 'mixing', then everyone with a darkroom 'mixes' their chemistry. I was referring to compounding from raw materials.

Can you explain this comment, please:

Cheaper to mix.

Also:

Did I not just say I want to buy Ecn-2 at flexicolor prices and quantities ???

Please remain calm and respectful.

 

[koraks]

What is 12.99?

This: https://cinestillfilm.com/collectio...ach-bypass-powder-concentrate-ecn-2-chemistry
That's what @brbo linked to. You can click the link in his post.

 

[Radost]

View attachment 358638
This: https://cinestillfilm.com/collectio...ach-bypass-powder-concentrate-ecn-2-chemistry
That's what @brbo linked to. You can click the link in his post.

$12.99 for 8 films is not that bad but…
I don’t trust cinestill.

I don’t want to get in to a political post but I rather start shooting digital than give money to cinestill. I had personal customer experiences in which I was treated pretty bad.

 

[Radost]

I don’t understand why: I would like to get original Kodak ecn-2 - flexicolor quantities and prices - is such a controversial request????

And no I don’t want cinestill.
I want Kodak.

 

[koraks]

I don't think it's a "controversial" request. I just don't think it's ever going to happen. Kodak has never marketed their cine products for consumers. Even their C41 chemistry was never really intended for that market; it just so happens that the smallest minilab quantities are sort of in the range where they make sense for consumers as well. But cine film isn't run through minilabs...

 

[Radost]

I don't think it's a "controversial" request. I just don't think it's ever going to happen. Kodak has never marketed their cine products for consumers. Even their C41 chemistry was never really intended for that market; it just so happens that the smallest minilab quantities are sort of in the range where they make sense for consumers as well. But cine film isn't run through minilabs...

Makes sense. I hope they keep making flexicolor. I don’t shot c41 films anymore “ I have 30 something 120 portra in the freezer”. But for 135 I am done with crazy C41 prices.
At the end of the day I am ok to do vision3 with c41. the 500T actually looks pretty much the same.

Can I wish for a cheap Kodak D96 ?

 

[miha]

Can I wish for a cheap Kodak D96 ?

Sure: https://www.freestylephoto.com/2510041-Bellini-D96-BandW-Cine-Film-Developer-1-Liter

 

[brbo]

Can I wish for a cheap Kodak D96 ?

So, $5.99 is not cheap enough?

You are one tough customer...

 

[koraks]

At the end of the day I am ok to do vision3 with c41. the 500T actually looks pretty much the same.

Can I wish for a cheap Kodak D96 ?

I'm OK with Vision3 too. It works surprisingly well, even optically printed. I stick with the 250D, though.

Kodak D96: same story as ECN2. Probably not going to happen as it's a cine-oriented product, so not aimed at home users.

 

[Radost]

So, $5.99 is not cheap enough?

You are one tough customer...

where is the $5.99 and how much volume?

 

[Radost]

Sure: https://www.freestylephoto.com/2510041-Bellini-D96-BandW-Cine-Film-Developer-1-Liter

This is way too much!!! anything more than Xtol $15 for 5 liters is too expansive.
1 liter is 8 36 exposure 135 films.

 

[brbo]

where is the $5.99 and how much volume?

I'd rather you click on the hyperlink yourself instead of me retyping here everything you can read at the linked site...

 

[koraks]

@brbo it seems @Radost doesn't see the links, maybe due to an unfortunate setting on his web client or something. Maybe we should just paste links as text so they're easier to recognize.
@Radost, this is the link for the $5.99 stuff: https://cinestillfilm.com/collectio...tion-picture-developer?variant=28914131828770

anything more than Xtol $15 for 5 liters is too expansive.

So maybe use XTOL? It's an excellent developer.
A clone can even be made very cheaply from raw ingredients if costs are a concern: sodium sulfite, sodium carbonate, borax, vitamin C and phenidone.

 

[BMbikerider]

This is what I wondered. Champion is listed as discontinued on Unique Photo, it was still showing at Pakor, I didn't talk to them. Fuji is making the stuff everyday of the week to supply commercial labs.

Champion is still readily available in UK

 

[mshchem]

Champion is still readily available in UK

Champion Photochemistry | Online Auction | New Mill Capital

480,000 SqFt Liquid & Powder Processing and Packaging Facility - (100+) 316SS Mixing & Storage Tanks, (11) Turnkey Liquid Filling Lines, & More.

www.newmillcapital.com

Liquidation of US factory in 2013.

 

[mshchem]

This is 2013, @MattKing can comment on what happened to Champion when EK declared bankruptcy.

Champion Photochemistry | Online Auction | New Mill Capital

480,000 SqFt Liquid & Powder Processing and Packaging Facility - (100+) 316SS Mixing & Storage Tanks, (11) Turnkey Liquid Filling Lines, & More.

www.newmillcapital.com

Hopefully some of this was put to good use.

 

[koraks]

Liquidation of US factory in 2013.

That's a decade ago.

Don't they operate out of Malaysia, anyway?

 

[MattKing]

That's a decade ago.

Don't they operate out of Malaysia, anyway?

Champion started in Canada, but through the years merged with UK and other interests - the "Champion" name came from one of the UK entities they merged with.
They expanded to the USA and to other parts of the world.
They had one of the largest unpaid creditor claims in the Eastman Kodak bankruptcy.
They ended up being based in Malaysia - everything else went under.

 

[koraks]

Thanks @MattKing that explains it!

 

[MattKing]

Thanks @MattKing that explains it!

And in case it isn't obvious, the reason that Champion was one of Eastman Kodak's largest unpaid creditors at the time of the bankruptcy is that Champion was making a large portion of the photo-chemicals marketed under the Kodak name - Kodak was no longer doing the manufacturing in-house.

 

[mshchem]

Great explanation. I have a few pouches of product that must have come from Champion in the US. Everything went bad all at once. I bet some of this equipment is still around in bits and pieces.

 

[Oz Etkin]

https://kodak.photosys.com/

It seems like Kodak chemistry for B/W, color negative, and color slide films will be available again soon. Hopefully they will be offered in sized convenient for hobbyist use!