Kodak B&W Reversal processing formulae

[Ian Grant]

Ian Grant submitted a new resource:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists) - Kodak B&W Reversal processing formulae

Kodak D168
B&W Reversal First Developer

Metol 2g
Sodium Sulphite (anhyd) 90g
Hydroquinone 8g
Sodium Carbonate (anhyd) 44.5g
Potassium Thiocyanate 2g
Water to 1 litre

Kodak D67
(Kodak D19 + Thiocyanate)
B&W Reversal First Developer
Metol 2g
Sodium Sulphite (anhyd) 90g
Hydroquinone 8g
Sodium Carbonate (anhyd) 45g
Potassium Thiocyanate 2g
Potassium Bromide 5g
Water to 1 litre


Kodak R21a Bleach...

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[dr5chrome]

This formula will produce less than satisfactory positives.

I wish I could enlighten.

There will be published reversal tips in the upcoming new edition of the Darkroom Cookbook / Anchel

 

[Ian Grant]

Your logic amazes me. These are well tried and tested Kodak Formulae, the fact that you might not be able to get good results using them is another issue entirely.

The first developer is fairly standard for use with B&W Reversal of stills and Cine film, as are the bleach and clearing bath.

So lets look forward to any revelations or insights there may be in the new Anchell book.

One thing you seem to forget is that B&W reversal processing has been around a long time, plenty of very good reliable information is available from a very wide variety of sources. There are still labs around capable of extremely high quality B&W reversal processing of Cine film, and in the past there were an awful lot more. Some of these labs would typically have been processing as much film per day as you probably process in a month or even possibly year. So what makes you think you or your dr5 process is any better than others.

 

[AutumnJazz]

Ian, I can't wait for the rest of your found formulas. (Yes, I remember your post.)

 

[Photo Engineer]

I have to agree with Ian. This process has given results that have even been used in Hollywood production, albeit years ago.

PE

 

[Ian Grant]

More to come

AutumnJazz, I'm slowly going through what I have with me, soon I'll post a number of alternative first developers some with and some without silver solvents (thiosulphate/thiocyanate), along with alternative bleaches (that's alternatives to permanganate/bichromate).

For instance one first developer system is rather like using Dr Beers Variable Contrast print developer, the balance of Hydroquinone/metol is varied to increase or decrease the contrast of the final positive.

Plus a variety of Second developers & alternatives to enable users to produce a whole range of different tones and colours in the final positives. This will enable skilled users to have far more control over their output than could ever be possible using a commercial laboratory.

Also ways to improve or modify commercially processed positives. Before dr5 takes offence at that I'm talking about how to improve under or over exposed positives or change image tone & colour on Black & White home processed, Scala, dr5 or any other commercial B&W positives.

Ian

 

[EASmithV]

This formula will produce less than satisfactory positives.

I wish I could enlighten.

There will be published reversal tips in the upcoming new edition of the Darkroom Cookbook / Anchel

And you can't because?

 

[aca91]

It has been a long time since the last answer to this post, so maybe it is too dated. Anyhow, some time ago I made a project, and I developed cine in my darkroom thanks to help from members of APUG. The main problem was that in my country, some chemicals (metol for example) are impossible to find. I managed to complete the process by adding 10g of hypo to 1L of Dektol stock (1st developer) for 8m at 20Cº using TRI-X (super 8) film. The bleach I used was R-9 (1 L water + Potassium dichromate 9.5g + Sulfuric acid 12ml). I remembered I had problems with a potassium permanganate bleach. As a second developer I used dektol without Hypo. Here is a link to the thread:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I know this may not be as technical as I would like it to be, but is one of the most fascinating discoveries I made in my darkroom thanks to APUG. I also believe that I have to give it back some how, and I think that a complete ignorant on chemestry (like me) or a student on a budget (like me) or a third worlder without access to metol (like me) may find this cheap and easy solution helpful.

I Hope someone would read this.

 

[filmcarnivore]

This is awesome. Thanks for posting.

 

[vdonovan]

It has been a long time since the last answer to this post, so maybe it is too dated. Anyhow, some time ago I made a project, and I developed cine in my darkroom thanks to help from members of APUG. The main problem was that in my country, some chemicals (metol for example) are impossible to find. I managed to complete the process by adding 10g of hypo to 1L of Dektol stock (1st developer) for 8m at 20Cº using TRI-X (super 8) film. The bleach I used was R-9 (1 L water + Potassium dichromate 9.5g + Sulfuric acid 12ml). I remembered I had problems with a potassium permanganate bleach. As a second developer I used dektol without Hypo. Here is a link to the thread:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I know this may not be as technical as I would like it to be, but is one of the most fascinating discoveries I made in my darkroom thanks to APUG. I also believe that I have to give it back some how, and I think that a complete ignorant on chemestry (like me) or a student on a budget (like me) or a third worlder without access to metol (like me) may find this cheap and easy solution helpful.

I Hope someone would read this.

Awesome indeed. I followed your earlier link with great interest because I want to start processing super 8 film myself. I haven't tried it yet, but I'm looking forward to using your formula as a starting point. It's great to know that you have used it, that it works, and you've passed it on to the APUG community.

 

[Jan Normandale]

More to come

AutumnJazz, I'm slowly going through what I have with me, soon I'll post a number of alternative first developers some with and some without silver solvents (thiosulphate/thiocyanate), along with alternative bleaches (that's alternatives to permanganate/bichromate).

For instance one first developer system is rather like using Dr Beers Variable Contrast print developer, the balance of Hydroquinone/metol is varied to increase or decrease the contrast of the final positive.

Plus a variety of Second developers & alternatives to enable users to produce a whole range of different tones and colours in the final positives. This will enable skilled users to have far more control over their output than could ever be possible using a commercial laboratory.

Also ways to improve or modify commercially processed positives. Before dr5 takes offence at that I'm talking about how to improve under or over exposed positives or change image tone & colour on Black & White home processed, Scala, dr5 or any other commercial B&W positives.

Ian

Hi Ian a lot of time has passed since your 2008 response captioned above regarding posting:

"I'm slowly going through what I have with me, soon I'll post a number of alternative first developers some with and some without silver solvents (thiosulphate/thiocyanate), along with alternative bleaches (that's alternatives to permanganate/bichromate)."

I'm wondering if you have any formulae to post? Thanks!

Jan

 

[Ian Grant]

I did post a lot more Reversal formulae in the Resources section, they are under Developers Non Staining.

Ian

 

[Gerald C Koch]

As I mentioned on another reversal thread, dichromate bleaches are no longer recommended. Dichromate is highly toxic and most waste disposal systems have regulations against its discharge. It is also believed to be carcinogenic. Potassium permanganate is much safer and is readily available from suppliers of water softening supplies. It is recommended by Ilford for their reversal process. Permanganate will work but you must follow Ilford's directions closely. The following site describes their method and gives formulas.

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/applications/page.asp?n=90

 

[flavio81]

I did post a lot more Reversal formulae in the Resources section, they are under Developers Non Staining.

Ian

Hi Ian, thanks for keeping this thead alive. In 2008 you mentioned that you'll publish alternative bleaches, do you have some formulas that don't use dichromate or permanganate? I've read about some formulas using hydrogen peroxide + citric acid (or acetic acid) but there is little information out there on them.

 

[Ian Grant]

Hi Flavio, I'd have to dig out my notes from 2008 and that wouldn't be easy at the moment (time wise or logistically). Various other compounds have been used in Reversal bleaches Ceriun Sulphate, Copper Sulphate, Ammonium/Sodium/Potassium Persulphate.

I have used Copper Sulphate reversal but only as part of the etch-bleach process, normally the remaining gelatin and silver halide just takes up dye but you can also re-develop it, normally you'd fix it before the dye bath.

Ian

 

[Taylor Page]

These resources state 60 watts, 12 to 18 inches, for about 10 seconds, or 150 watts at 4 to 5 feet. Is 2.5 min with a 500 watt bulb too much? Is there a way I can tell if the exposure was too long? Want to be safe before I attempt this. Using 16mm Kodak 7266.

http://www.geocities.ws/meta8mm/plusxtrixprocessing.html

http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/PBR/pbr.html

 

[Ian Grant]

These resources state 60 watts, 12 to 18 inches, for about 10 seconds, or 150 watts at 4 to 5 feet. Is 2.5 min with a 500 watt bulb too much? Is there a way I can tell if the exposure was too long? Want to be safe before I attempt this. Using 16mm Kodak 7266.

Over exposure particularly to daylight during re-exposure can cause odd reversal effects (a bit like solarisation), there's quite a lot of tolerance though with artificial light. 2½ minutes with a 500w lamp is too long, use the normal room lighting or a table lamp, if it's more modern tungsten halide or LED bulb use the equivalent of the 60w or 150w bulbs and the recommended distance.

Ian

 

[pentaxuser]

As I mentioned on another reversal thread, dichromate bleaches are no longer recommended. Dichromate is highly toxic and most waste disposal systems have regulations against its discharge. It is also believed to be carcinogenic. Potassium permanganate is much safer and is readily available from suppliers of water softening supplies. It is recommended by Ilford for their reversal process. Permanganate will work but you must follow Ilford's directions closely. The following site describes their method and gives formulas.

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/applications/page.asp?n=90

Gerald, clicking on this link results in Error 404 =Not Found. This may be connected to the launch of the new Ilford site where it is no longer clear how one gets to any Ilford articles. Any ideas how one gets to the above or indeed any articles?

The new site seems only to be geared up to sell.

I have addressed this to Gerald but only as it was his post with the helpful link but anyone who knows where to go to get to the article can answer

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Taylor Page]

Just finished processing Fomapan double 8 using this process. Only difference I used permanganate bleach. Really confused on why my film came out the way it did. Uploaded a picture of the results. Does it look like an in camera issue or developing issue .

 

[josephchesshyre]

Just wanted to report that I processed some film using this recipe (but with KMnO4 bleach) and despite it being an unfamiliar developer and the film being one I'd never used before (Rollei Retro 400S), for a first attempt with not much to go on I'm very pleased indeed with the results. I'm including a couple here. They were shot with an Olympus OM20 with a Zuiko 28mm f2.8 lens. They're 'scanned' using just a Panasonic DMC FZ72 and a slide copier attachment, with no post-processing other than a little sharpening.

I used the D168 undiluted for 6 minutes at 20C as suggested by Ian Grant. I might try it diluted 1:1 next time for slightly lower contrast, at least with this Rollei film which is inherently contrasty. But I'm looking forward to trying it with some Ilford HP5+ and FP4+ and will report back further when I have done so.

Many thanks indeed to Ian for uploading these formulae. It was very fun mixing my own chemicals and very satisfying using a 73 or more year-old recipe to get far better results than I've got so far using the Ilford recipe!

 

[pkr1979]

A little late myself I suppose...

As far as I can tell the difference between D168 and D67 is Bromide. What does Bromide do, and when is it useful... or for what films is it useful for?

Cheers
Peter

 

[fdonadio]

I only have ammonium thiocyanate. Can I use that (given I adjust the quantity to match the thiocyanate molarity)?

Thanks,
Flavio