Kodak Axes Digicams, but keeps film

[keithwms]

Its quite possible that unit sales volume is up, gross sales are up (and Freestyle are correct) and net sales are decreasing. All can be correct simultaneously as NET is GROSS less COSTS. But What costs? How can any of us know how Kodak decide to chop up their operating costs into the various groups? Accountants can move costs around within a company so the analysis is irrelevant.

Exactly right, and I tried to make that point in this thread or another about a week ago. But, you know, some people believe that pasting in the same partial info over and over is somehow contributing to the thread.

If I were Perez, I'd seek ways to bundle losses into the sector that I am euthanizing. If he's trying to make his printer project look good, he'll do whatever he can to conceal the fact that it is that venture and not film that is pushing EK over the edge.

We will all know the truth about what Perez did with EK, and soon. Patience.

 

[BradleyK]

Quote from Forbes

"The one silver lining is that Kodak will continue producing color and black-and-white film, news that should make traditional photographers happy."

I am very happy

+1. While Ilford's PanF Plus and FP4 long ago became my films of choice (read:exclusive) for my medium and large format black and white work, Tri-X has always had a virtual lock on my 35mm black and white shooting. I have yet to find a completely acceptable substitute (and, yes, HP5 is a Great Film...but it is not Tri-X). Given the diminishing numbers of transparency shooters out there in photo-land - and the (non-existent) film choices available - would we be correct in assuming the "continued production" of color materials, refers to EK's C41 offerings?

 

[ME Super]

I would beg to differ at least to a small degree with the assertion that the number of transparency shooters is declining. I see a lot of XPro slide film scans on flickr and the like from the Lomo crowd (remember, most XPro is E-6 souped in C-41, not the other way around). And some of us are getting back into slide film shooting (there's nothing like a slide on a lightbox or projected!) and presentation. So while the number of traditional transparency shooters may be shrinking, the number of xpro transparency shooters is growing. Go Lomo crowd! Shoot enough E-6 to keep it viable for the rest of us traditional E-6 shooters!

ME Super

 

[PKM-25]

Imagine you are on vacation in a nice place with many visually engaging attributes that are worthy of pointing a camera at. You are strolling downtown with your significant other and she wants to go shop for a few hours. You decide that shopping is not for you, set a meeting time and place and look for a coffee shop to have a seat and read the paper. You contact who seems to be a local and ask where the best place is for that, not Starbucks perhaps. The enthusiastic informant quips, "Oh, just go to the DarkRoom, two blocks that way on your left"....

You show up and there it is, a hip and cool coffee shop with photo-esque motif, safelights for light fixtures, all kinds of cool photo nostaligia as decor, bean-bag chairs, photo-centric coffee table books abound...you get the idea. And next to the counter where the barista is chugging away at making you a latte with "2-Stops" of espresso, is another counter....cameras for rental and purchase. In the case are not dusty old Practicas and 120 folders, but shiny, colorful and whimsical renovations of what were garage sale paperweights. There is a stable of Blads, some with really funny stickers covering them, others with bright red and blue leatherette, all in perfect working condition having been gone over by David Odess. Then there are Leicas, Nikons, Canons and several others.....all mechanically sound and freshly adapted to be the new age of film photography, the fun part. Some of these beautifully restored cameras ar for sale too, not eBay level dirt cheap, but surely affordabe by most. You notice lots of black and white and color film behind the counter in a cool fridge that has been painted and stenciled in well known quotes by famous photographers...you are fully engaged now....

You have two hours to kill, you ask the person at the counter "So I can rent one of these, but where can I get the film developed?" The Barista replies, "The color we send out, but the black and white can be done right here in our darkroom, you can even do it your self and print it too." The gentleman rents a Leica, had always wanted to try one.

The next day, he asks his wife if he can have two hours to go print his film...he is hooked and buys the camera of his dreams.

This business is my five year plan, to not only bring back film based workshops to one of the most art and talent filled places on Earth, but to provide a place where you can sip a cup of "Grade-3" while you look at a well worn copy of "Bare Witness" by Gordon Parks or rent a leopard skinned Nikon F2 and develop the film your self. Many of those used cameras out there are like old Beach Cruisers, they can be not only restored, but made cool, hip and fun.

This is what film photography needs in order to survive, to shake the cobwebs off of it and freshen it up, to be cool again and just plain fun.

This too, can be a reality...

 

[jglass]

Good idea. I agree. Hipster-ville is where film can grow.

 

[Steve Smith]

You show up and there it is, a hip and cool coffee shop with photo-esque motif, safelights for light fixtures, all kinds of cool photo nostaligia.

There is something similar in London. Aperture is a combined photographic store and café.

http://www.apertureuk.com/


Steve.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

There is something similar in London. Aperture is a combined photographic store and café.

http://www.apertureuk.com/


Steve.

I believe there is yet another similar coffee shop / foto-chique place in San Francisco. I bought some Agfa paper from them a while back, and got a nice Kodak Super-XX little magnet as a thank you gift, which now prides my refrigerator door.

The place is called Glass Key Photo, and is located in an establishment named Rocky Ricardo's. So it's a collaboration between two businesses to coexist, but along a similar theme.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

This business is my five year plan, to not only bring back film based workshops to one of the most art and talent filled places on Earth, but to provide a place where you can sip a cup of "Grade-3" while you look at a well worn copy of "Bare Witness" by Gordon Parks or rent a leopard skinned Nikon F2 and develop the film your self. Many of those used cameras out there are like old Beach Cruisers, they can be not only restored, but made cool, hip and fun.

This is what film photography needs in order to survive, to shake the cobwebs off of it and freshen it up, to be cool again and just plain fun.

This too, can be a reality...

The Impossible Project, baby...



Ken

 

[PKM-25]

Actually, Glass Key is in a really cool record store on Haight Street. While he does have some cameras in the case, they are pretty much on consignment. Great guy and store though.

What I am hoping to do is restore some of these cameras to either factory condition or beyond with some hip and cool motif like cool leatherette schemes, etc. But like I said, it is a five year plan, the workshops will be first, then the retail space serving up mojo to keep the balance sheets looking good.

I believe there is yet another similar coffee shop / foto-chique place in San Francisco. I bought some Agfa paper from them a while back, and got a nice Kodak Super-XX little magnet as a thank you gift, which now prides my refrigerator door.

The place is called Glass Key Photo, and is located in an establishment named Rocky Ricardo's. So it's a collaboration between two businesses to coexist, but along a similar theme.

 

[Neanderman]

There's nothing conjectural about Aristophanes' summaries of Kodak's financial reporting. Private opinions are one thing but private facts seem to be the basis of your denial of a serious situation for EK. That you don't like the news or don't get what's behind it changes nothing, your faith in the power of "positive" thinking notwithstanding.

I don't see anyone here disagreeing that Kodak is in real trouble or saying that everything is great and that the sun will shine tomorrow. Kodak wouldn't be in bankruptcy if they weren't in trouble. I think the difference here is SOME of us think that the film side of Kodak's business can be saved -- Aristophanes (and, I think, you) seems to be saying it's hopeless.

Ed

 

[CGW]

Imagine you are on vacation in a nice place with many visually engaging attributes that are worthy of pointing a camera at. You are strolling downtown with your significant other and she wants to go shop for a few hours. You decide that shopping is not for you, set a meeting time and place and look for a coffee shop to have a seat and read the paper. You contact who seems to be a local and ask where the best place is for that, not Starbucks perhaps. The enthusiastic informant quips, "Oh, just go to the DarkRoom, two blocks that way on your left"....

You show up and there it is, a hip and cool coffee shop with photo-esque motif, safelights for light fixtures, all kinds of cool photo nostaligia as decor, bean-bag chairs, photo-centric coffee table books abound...you get the idea. And next to the counter where the barista is chugging away at making you a latte with "2-Stops" of espresso, is another counter....cameras for rental and purchase. In the case are not dusty old Practicas and 120 folders, but shiny, colorful and whimsical renovations of what were garage sale paperweights. There is a stable of Blads, some with really funny stickers covering them, others with bright red and blue leatherette, all in perfect working condition having been gone over by David Odess. Then there are Leicas, Nikons, Canons and several others.....all mechanically sound and freshly adapted to be the new age of film photography, the fun part. Some of these beautifully restored cameras ar for sale too, not eBay level dirt cheap, but surely affordabe by most. You notice lots of black and white and color film behind the counter in a cool fridge that has been painted and stenciled in well known quotes by famous photographers...you are fully engaged now....

You have two hours to kill, you ask the person at the counter "So I can rent one of these, but where can I get the film developed?" The Barista replies, "The color we send out, but the black and white can be done right here in our darkroom, you can even do it your self and print it too." The gentleman rents a Leica, had always wanted to try one.

The next day, he asks his wife if he can have two hours to go print his film...he is hooked and buys the camera of his dreams.

This business is my five year plan, to not only bring back film based workshops to one of the most art and talent filled places on Earth, but to provide a place where you can sip a cup of "Grade-3" while you look at a well worn copy of "Bare Witness" by Gordon Parks or rent a leopard skinned Nikon F2 and develop the film your self. Many of those used cameras out there are like old Beach Cruisers, they can be not only restored, but made cool, hip and fun.

This is what film photography needs in order to survive, to shake the cobwebs off of it and freshen it up, to be cool again and just plain fun.

This too, can be a reality...

Right. Sorta like a Havana for old cameras...Ever think that Cubanos are sick of driving '53 Chevys?

This will only work if you sell loafers to match those re-upholstered F2s:

http://cameraleather.com/

Don't forget the basement grow-op to keep up the cash flow.

 

[keithwms]

Ah, always there to provide the negativity

 

[michaelbsc]

I'm sure someone has done that. It's just really hard to compete with the phone in your pocket that does that exact thing just as well.

Uh...? Just as well? Or better?

Every time this moronic Facebook application on my phone updates it keeps trying to upload everything in sight. Since most of the pictures I take with my phone are work related I keep turning it off. Who wants to see a valve actuator on Facebook?

But if I was a 17 year old kid it would fit the niche perfectly. Plus it would send my Verizon data plan over the limit every month. Wow! What a revenue stream!

MB

 

[Roger Cole]

Your post was pretty clear, actually. Just a couple of frustrating abbreviations, that's all. Thanks for clarifying. It's perfectly clear now.

Oh that comment was directed to the other comment by CGW asking where I had been for a decade:

Where have you been for the past decade? The major makers killed film cameras because--wait for it--there was insufficient demand. The film ecosystem as it was known to many has simply collapsed. What leads to this bizarre belief in a resurrection of film camera manufacture? Hope for a reverse "cargo cult" where Nikon F2 bodies and rolls of K-64 rain down from above?

Lack of multi quote strikes again! Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I just referred to FADU without explanation because I was talking to Steve, and I know he's on that forum. As for SWAG I guess it's just habit because it's used quite a bit with the same meaning in my field, or at least locally in my field, of network engineering, and occasionally in some of my other hobbies too.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Who wants to see a valve actuator on Facebook?

Me! Me! Me! But only when I'm at work and it's a Keystone EPI-2 or MRP pneumatic...

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Threads merged, title updated.

 

[Brian C. Miller]

You show up and there it is, a hip and cool coffee shop with photo-esque motif, safelights for light fixtures, all kinds of cool photo nostaligia as decor, bean-bag chairs, photo-centric coffee table books abound...you get the idea.
...
This business is my five year plan ...

That looks good! Remember to serve good coffee, too. (I roast my own, so I'm picky...) A bit of exhibition wall space would be good, too.

There's funky cafe near me called Zippy's, and their niche is community and whole foods. Too bad their web site doesn't have images. They have paintings (for sale) on the walls by local artists. I don't know how often they swap them out.

 

[keithwms]

Caffeine and art sales go well together. I am thinking that Starbucks should be targeted by APUG.

 

[Rudeofus]

Exactly right, and I tried to make that point in this thread or another about a week ago. But, you know, some people believe that pasting in the same partial info over and over is somehow contributing to the thread.

Kodak's FPEG net sales numbers include photographic still film, movie film and movie print film. If photographic still film sales grow by 20% total, steeply declining movie print film sales may still cause an overall decline in FPEG sales volumes. Both the numbers Aristophanes keeps posting over and over again and the numbers published by still film distributors may be correct and consistent.

BTW, if one takes the number Aristophanes posted for 2011 and adjusts it for 4 quarters you get about 1.500 million. Which would indicate to me that the decline has slowed down significantly, even if you compare it to an exponential decline where smaller values decline less. Even with Aristophanes' numbers one could argue that film sales numbers will level off soon and end the ten or twelve years of decline.

 

[wblynch]

Man, I sure wish APUG had an ignore-member button.

Besides all that I am glad that Kodak continues to make photo film and paper.

(edit: thanks to a few a good members, I have learned where this mystical button resides. Life is a bit more pleasant now)

 

[keithwms]

Yes, Rudeofus, I am assuming cine sales will go to heck, that is a given. In that case, then the most profitable sector... good old individually packaged film... may be able to emerge in a much leaner and meaner spinoff. I am reminded of 3M's strategy, make it by the mile, sell it by the inch. That's the kind of thinking that can help a company turn a very tidy profit on film for several years to come.

Bill, there is an ignore member function...

 

[Aristophanes]

I don't see anyone here disagreeing that Kodak is in real trouble or saying that everything is great and that the sun will shine tomorrow. Kodak wouldn't be in bankruptcy if they weren't in trouble. I think the difference here is SOME of us think that the film side of Kodak's business can be saved -- Aristophanes (and, I think, you) seems to be saying it's hopeless.

Ed

It's hopeless within a public company like Kodak coming out of CH. 11 with creditors turned into preferred shareholders. Those shareholders cannot have their equity planted into a "declining" product line.

The whole point of CH. 11 is to offload assets in decline.

 

[removed account4]

Caffeine and art sales go well together. I am thinking that Starbucks should be targeted by APUG.

too funny ..

i have been planning to open a cafe like this for 20 years ...
part owned a gallery to learn the trade, helped manage a café to learn the trade
never had deep enough pockets though ... café overhead is a KILLER

you forgot to mention the café sells caffenol on the side ( and will stand process your film as you drink your coffee )

I am thinking that Starbucks should be targeted by APUG.

they refuse to use "outsider art" everything is produced in house by their secretive star chamber design team

 

[Aristophanes]

Caffeine and art sales go well together. I am thinking that Starbucks should be targeted by APUG.

Starbucks...where even store has the exact same paint job.

Nice.

That's where I'll shop for art.

 

[Steve Smith]

Remember to serve good coffee....

And tea... or I'm not coming!


Steve Smith.